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SD against police

Discussion in 'GATE Self-Defense Forum' started by Jayock, Apr 25, 2011.

  1. Jayock


    Dec 8, 2004
    Boulder, Colorado
    Hi Mas,

    I appreciate your previous answers to my questions. This one is tricky at best...

    I'd like to start by stating that I am part of the population that believes that a vast, overwhelming majority of LEO are good guys, and are here to protect the public. I also truly believe that those good LEOs have more disgust with bad LEO than the public does.

    Over the past decade or two, we have all seen stories about police brutality, police bad-shoots, etc. Even counting out the bad-shoot situations, various brutality charges have been reported on cases with collapsed lungs, broken ribs, faces smashed to the ground. Each of these would, in my opinion, fall under the "great bodily harm" clause of most states' self defense statutes. Additionally, the disparity of force would seem definite and reasonable by way of the officer training and weapons availability.

    Of course, I would rather take a broken nose and some scars and file suit in court than ever resist an officer. This question, however, focuses on an event when there is a reasonable fear, and a near inevitability of great bodily harm and/or death for the citizen. And for the point of this discussion, let us assume that the citizen has followed all orders of the LEO and has not committed any violent crimes or hostile actions, toward the officer or otherwise. The LEO is in the middle of a brutal, enraged beating, or firing at a citizen.

    So the question is this:

    1. What, if any, rights do citizens have to defend themselves against such a deplorable attack?
    2. Do you know any cases or case law that references such a situation?

    It seems like it would be an up-hill battle (on a steep grade) for and defendant put in this situation. Probably a defense attorneys worst nightmare. But I have to imagine that all applicable defense laws would hold.

    Certainly the lase situation I would ever want to be in, but would love your opinion on the subject.
  2. Mas Ayoob

    Mas Ayoob KoolAidAntidote Moderator

    Nov 6, 2005
    Take those reports with a large grain of salt. There is the rare case, such as the drunk off-duty cop on video beating the female bartender in Chicago a few years ago, where physical force intervention might be warranted. You'll find, however, that a huge number of alleged police brutality incidents aren't what the complainant claims them to be.

    Anyone interested in discussing shooting cops and getting away with it should probably do so elsewhere.


  3. Jayock


    Dec 8, 2004
    Boulder, Colorado
    Thanks Mas.

    Like I said, I am very Pro-Police, and didn't intend it to be a shoot a cop and get away with it question. Though I understand that to a passerby reader it may seem like just that, so I appreciate the response you provided.

    My reason for asking was simply curiosity that came from what now sounds like many reports that were unfair and one-sided. I think that many self-defense oriented citizens play the "Try to put myself in the scenario" game when we hear reports of attacks, and that is simply where this question came from. Of course when good law abiding citizens imagine themselves in such situations, the scenario is imagined with "us" in the situation, where we are truly the innocent defender, and have done everything we can to avoid the need for SD in the first place. You make a good point that this is probably not a good representation, as the complainant in the reports has not behaved in that way.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  4. RussP

    RussP Moderator

    Jan 23, 2003
    Central Virginia
    Mas, I'm going to step in here for a moment.

    Jayock, the best defense against any violent encounter is avoidance. Don't put yourself in any set of circumstances that would put you at a disadvantage.

    As Mas said, if you read ALL the information from all sides, you generally find the initial reports, especially in the mainstream media, are no where close to reality.

    Last, there are forums where this is discussed. Remember this if you choose to seek them out. What is good and safe for one person may be deadly for you.

    Stay Safe. Stay Smart.

    Mas, thanks for letting me butt in.

  5. Mas Ayoob

    Mas Ayoob KoolAidAntidote Moderator

    Nov 6, 2005
    No problem, Russ. Thanks for dropping by. Your logical commentary is always welcome here.