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SCOTUS ruling against SEIU

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by sbhaven, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. sbhaven

    sbhaven

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    SCOTUS ruling today, 7-2, on union due's and the opt out option for non union members...
    KNOX ET AL. v. SERVICE EMPLOYEES INTERNATIONAL UNION, LOCAL 1000
    Background...
    More at the link including the reversed and remanded case and opinion...
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  2. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Sounds like the status quo. We had some our guys leave our POA only to come back when management saw them as weeklings to be culled from the herd. I don't think we collected any dues from them other than LDF money.
     

  3. Jerry

    Jerry Staff Member Moderator Millennium Member

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    It should be, you either belong or you don't. Your choice! You belong you pay all fess necessary. You don't belong you don't pay anything and you get no union "protection"/benefits. If the union bargains and member befits increase the "company" may or may not grant non union members the same benefits. Companies choice. But then that would be fair and balanced so why would I even think it would work? :upeyes:
     
  4. wjv

    wjv

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    Why should the unions have the right to demand money from people, that will be used EXPRESSLY for political purposes?

    So if you belong to union X, you are forced to pay extra assessments to support candidates that you don't like?
     
  5. Fed Five Oh

    Fed Five Oh NRA Member

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    Looks like it was 6-3.
     
  6. sbhaven

    sbhaven

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    Nope, 7-2. From the opinion PDF link above...
    From Scotusblog...
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  7. Fed Five Oh

    Fed Five Oh NRA Member

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    You are correct. I joined a joiner with the wrong joiner.
     
  8. G29Reload

    G29Reload Tread Lightly

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    The real headline here is Sotomayor did the right thing! She voted against the union. Zero must be pissed.
     
  9. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Even though I agree with some Union functions, I wholehardheartedly agree with Unions not getting involved with politics, and absolutely agree that people need to volunteer to be in a Union, it should not be mandatory. I also think there should be a separation, so that Unions can only use dues to work on local matters, and not on political matters. A lot of Union members are conservative, but the corrupt leadership is almost always DemocRAT.

    An employee should have a right, but not a mandate to be in a Union. That should be (and is in many cases) voluntary.

    An employee should know that their dues are not going to support ANY political candidate. The dues should not be sent to any higher level union organization.

    A Union should concern themselves with the rights of their employees, not politicians.
     
  10. Brucev

    Brucev

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    So, if employees are not to act in concert politically then using the same rational it follows that corporations should not be permitted to act politically as stockholders are not uniformly of one political perspective, etc.??? Or are only employees acting collectively as a union to be precluded from acting politically???
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  11. Bruce H

    Bruce H

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    Who ever decided that unions, corporations, or any organized group should be treated like a person for political reasons was an idiot. They should not be involved at any level.
     
  12. sbhaven

    sbhaven

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    I think the issue/problem/difference stems from the fact that the Union was collecting money from the employees regardless of if they were in the union or not. Where as stockholders and share holders voluntarily buy into the company.
    That ruling has opened a can of worms.

    The problem with some of the public unions however is the incestuous relationship they have with the elected government officials. The unions donate to the very people who are tasked to bargain with the union on union employee wages and benefits. As such there is a circle of money that goes from government coffers, to the unions employees, back to the union via union due's, then back to the government officials through (ETA: union) campaign donations and paid media advertising spots.

    A similar cycle does happen in the private sector too with companies who lobby and then are granted tax breaks, tax cuts, eminent domain land grabs, or other benefits by those in government that they lobbied.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  13. CAcop

    CAcop

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    At least in the case of unions I think your fears may be ubfounded. I work for a city that is probably in the top 5, at least top 10, most liberal cities in this country. All the politcians in office here are Democrats. They take union money and support. The last time us employees did netionitations we gave up 18% of our pay where the city was going to imposr a contract on us that was going to be structured far worse. Us at the PD we are in an "association" with very little back up, unlike the other city workers with SEIU. Even the might SEIU can't stave off layoff of 10% of employees and 18% cuts on top of a 10% furlough.

    I honestly don't think businesses are going to fare much better.

    Let's be honest. Politicians are rainmaking us. "The Gods are not happy with that last rain dance. I need more money to do another dance." If people were smarter they would see it rains sooner or later without having to pay the rainmaker his money.
     
  14. countrygun

    countrygun

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    His observations about the public employee unions are exactly what happened here and the back scratching went a couple of steps further as the State politicians discouraged private enterprise in my County and instead increased the number of social workers to help with the social problems from a high unemployment rate, and encouraged retiress to move inand utilize "care providers" who, like the social workers were absorbed into the SEIU, which was a prime political contributor.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  15. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Anyone can set up a PAC. A Union should not automatically be one. The PAC fund should be separate and voluntary. No comingling if funds, separate personnel work that side of the house. Which is the way it is where I work. Union membership is voluntary, the union is required to represent non dues paying members, unless the matter reaches the level of a statutory appeal (EEO, OWCP, MSPB etc).
     
  16. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    She's just in stealth mode. Let's see what she does with barrycare and the next RKBA case.
     
  17. sbhaven

    sbhaven

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    Unfounded or not the potential is there and money is a powerful motivator.

    With the economy in the toilet. Many cities now have no choice but to cut back on city employees pay and benefits. For many cites (and states) the employee wage and benefits have become a growing expenditure that they can no longer afford. None of this means that in the past unions and the politicians were not in bed with each other.

    While this article about my state is a few years old, it shows that (back then) the average pay for state employee's were $14,000 higher than the average private sector wage. No state or city can support such a disparity indefinitely when the money to pay those city/state employees comes from the private sector. The federal government can support such a disparity between it's employees and the private secctor since it has the monetary printing presses to print unlimited funds from.
     
  18. HexHead

    HexHead

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    Stockholders can sell their stock if they don't agree with the company's actions. I used to work for a company where all the employees fell under the union contract, whether they were members or not. Only members got to vote on the contract. I joined the union just so I could vote against a proposed contract, which failed. The only way out of the union was to either quit working for the company, or go into management.
     
  19. CAcop

    CAcop

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    When I see stats like this I awlays wonder if they just do all jobs vs. all jobs or they actually compare similar jobs. Around here IT people get paid less than in the private sector but they get pensions and are slightly more resistant to outsourcing or layoff. (Hard to get "Sam" from India to hop a plane to fix the report writing system at 0300 vs. our in house guy) Teachers in private vs. public get paid less but they deal with better kids for the most part. Consider it combat pay. Nurses in the public sector get paid far less as a rule but they do get pensions in exchange, usually. Of course you can't compare cops to security guards. Around here it is very common for agencies to require 60 college units for police and security guard don't even need a GED.

    I suspect that is why the studies always just lump workers as whole because there are some jobs that are not directly comparable.
     
  20. Brucev

    Brucev

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    My experience with unions was in trucking and the shipyard. Like anything else, it was not uniformly bad or good. Employees/stockholders... they can choose to leave by selling out or walking away. Can't see that restriction political action by unions should not also apply exactly and equally to corporations. If it is grievous for stockholders/corporations to not be allowed to act/speak politically, then it is no less grievous for unionized employees to be denied the exact same right to act/speak politically.