close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Talk

Why should YOU join our Glock forum?

  • Converse with other Glock Enthusiasts
  • Learn about the latest hunting products
  • Becoming a member is FREE and EASY

If you consider yourself a beginner or an avid shooter, the Glock Talk community is your place to discuss self defense, concealed carry, reloading, target shooting, and all things Glock.

Romney won the debate - but

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by G19G20, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. douggmc

    douggmc

    1,851
    9
    Feb 23, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    I've already explained it twice. You are looking at it from a micro-economic standpoint ... if you will. The tax penalty is the carrot/stick in the macro-economic sense to get you to get the guy to insure himself.

    No penalty for not paying the IRS? What world do you live in? Stick with me: If a person can afford to buy insurance, but doesn't, that implies they have met the income/net worth threshold for it to be required. They will be afforded a tax penalty. If they don't said penalty to the IRS, their wages will be garnished and/or liens placed on assets. Just like if you don't pay any other taxes to the fed gov.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  2. douggmc

    douggmc

    1,851
    9
    Feb 23, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    As I suspected. Quantify it. The only CORE (key word ... see my original post above that you say is "bull****"), MEANINGFUL impact is "the mandate" ... and the mandate is the only way Obamacare would work.
     

    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012

  3. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    51,975
    4,424
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    I dunno. 2012 max HSA contribution is $6250. $2500 might be a little high but its close. Call it $2000. IIRC, fed takes about .30 of every dollar from us in income tax.

    That's a tax increase.

    :rofl: You even lie to yourself! That's a tax increase.

    Right now that's $2000 that the government doesn't get from me. Now, they'll get it.

    And by eliminating my high deductible plan, you increase my premiums and force me to pay for healthcare I don't need. You can call it whatever you want but that's a defacto tax increase.

    Bull****. HSA works in tandem with high deductible plans. Gone.

    You lie
     
  4. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    51,975
    4,424
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    Mandate is another word for taxation.
     
  5. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    51,975
    4,424
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    "They will be AFFORDED a tax penalty."

    :rofl:

    Afforded?
     
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    51,975
    4,424
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    So wait.........what about the people who don't meet that income threshold? They don't get penalized? They don't chip in? But they get the same health insurance I do?

    WTF?
     
  7. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon "Cracker"

    11,018
    2
    Feb 18, 2009
    Have you told that to the Darden restaurant employees?
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    51,975
    4,424
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    Yeah, to continue the lie you have to gloss over this. Ignore it.

    hey, is all of this free?

     
  9. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon "Cracker"

    11,018
    2
    Feb 18, 2009
    Dude, Roberts and the SC took away the collection mechanism for collecting the "tax penalty".
     
  10. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon "Cracker"

    11,018
    2
    Feb 18, 2009

    So, you concede then that Obamacare is more than just the mandate as you claim?
     
  11. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon "Cracker"

    11,018
    2
    Feb 18, 2009

    According to Doug. Maybe they are going to pay for it out of Obama's stash. Hey Doug, how much money is in Obama's stash?
     
  12. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    51,975
    4,424
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    Nice catch.

    hey doug - what about this? How are you going to pay for your socialism if you can't collect?
     
  13. douggmc

    douggmc

    1,851
    9
    Feb 23, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    You know what ... I'll back track a bit and recognize you may very well be saving ~2000 a year with the HSA. I forgot your wife was a Dentist, so you make much more than the average househould. Making an assumption of 400,000 income ... all else being equal ... my tax calculator resulted in a delta of 2000 pretty much spot on (http://www.taxbrain.com/taxcenter/taxcalculator/calculator7.asp ... assumptions: 400,000 married filed jointly income, two non-adult kids, 100,000 wage withholding).
     
  14. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    51,975
    4,424
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    You're off. We're a two income household. taxes are significantly higher than your calculator.

    And you continue to ignore the savings associated with a high deductible plan.

    My taxes are going up for Obamacare and my insurance premiums are going up.

    But I'm getting no more healthcare for it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  15. douggmc

    douggmc

    1,851
    9
    Feb 23, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    The ruling did no such thing.

    If nothing else, since it is a penalty maybe they won't be able to apply a lien on your house or garnish wages (but don't but your house on it ... pun intended ... by playing chicken with the IRS), but they can still withhold any refund due in lieu of the penalty that year and/or in future years.

    The IRS will collect ... at one point or another. You won't skate past it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  16. douggmc

    douggmc

    1,851
    9
    Feb 23, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    :upeyes: I'm not off on something I never postulated on. I never assumed anything regarding one or two income household ... simply a married filed jointly 400,000 income. Obviously I don't know your exact specifics. All I did was make the comparisons the same, with the exception of the 6000 HSA contribution ... and I conceded it was about a 2000 tax savings for you. :dunno:

    I'm not ignoring it... i stated clearly ... you are an edge case. Deal with it ... Obamacare isn't for or against you individually, regardless of how important you think you are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  17. douggmc

    douggmc

    1,851
    9
    Feb 23, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    No. As I already stated, at its CORE (key word ... original statement) it is the mandate. It is the central, critical component with which the entire piece of legislation pivots on. The remaining "stuff" is trivial and in support of the central goal of the act ... which is to improve health care for the citizens of our country.
     
  18. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    51,975
    4,424
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    I'm a citizen. How does it improve my healthcare, doug?
     
  19. douggmc

    douggmc

    1,851
    9
    Feb 23, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    Not nice catch. It is nonsense. They will collect. The "socialism" will be paid for. :wavey: When they do collect it can pay for or offset all those 80 or so little ancillary things ruble listed. How does that sound?
     
  20. douggmc

    douggmc

    1,851
    9
    Feb 23, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    See post #376, last statement for an answer to your typical vapid obtuse question. Are you sure you aren't blonde (or wearing a blonde wig)?

    How does it improve the health care of the hundreds of thousands of people with pre-existing conditions that previously received sub-optimal, untimely, inefficient, poor, extremely costly healthcare ... for which they didn't pay?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012