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Report has public pension short fall at $4.6 trillion

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Mr981, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Sure it does
     
  2. elsolo

    elsolo

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    I have no doubt that is true at the police department you work at.

    I was speaking of government jobs in general, which for the far majority of them do not have the hiring restrictions that LEO's have.

    90% of the government employees I know personally are not LEO's, but rather clerks, maintenance mechanics on elevators of boilers, teachers, etc. They all get paid far in excess of what they made in the private sector, not including the benefits or retirement. Too bad the people getting hired today don't get a retirement deal anywhere near as good, because every time a union negotiates, they barter away the benefits of the new hires. Like a Ponzi scheme, if you got in early you get paid handsomely.


    If there is a waiting list a year long just to take the test to even be considered for an opening, that says to me that there is a surplus of applicants.
     

  3. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    And current legislators can change laws. These laws can be changed to say we are not honoring old obligations.
     
  4. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    Actually that sounds like it might be the perfect solution to the government related fiscal issues. Each government entity that owes money could simply pass legislation saying they will not honor the obligation. No more debt with a simple legislative change.
     
  5. SunsetMan

    SunsetMan Deplorable Lifetime Member

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    Don't forget, this is at 50 to 80% of base salary averaged over the last 3 years. Move from a small town to a big city your last 3 years and double your pension. :poke:
     
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Keep watching then
     
  7. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    From what I understand this formula gets gamed quite frequently with employees nearing retirement padding their hours with bs assignments with a wink and a nod from their superiors.
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Precisely. It's amazing how so many people don't understand this simple truth
     
  9. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Would you as a business owner ever do work for the government knowing they can cancel your contract without having to pay you?

    I ask because CalTrans does not build roads. They hire private companies to do that. Would anyone take on roadbuilding if they knew the government could pass a law forbiding payment for that work?
     
  10. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    I am telling you for a fact the answer is yes and many thousands of yeses are said each year. I do this almost everyday of my life for a living, there are contracts worth hundreds of millions a year to private companies that are absolutely subject to appropriation. The fact it is true is the reason I get paid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  11. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    I also negotiate multiyear contracts with government entities. We have special contracts and terms for them (which are basically THEIR contracts and terms). Without fail every single one of them has an annual out clause because it is contingent on the government body appropriating the money to satisfy the terms of the contract.

    This is standard stuff.

    Now, what we know is that because most governments employ some form of baseline budgeting, the chances of it not getting funded are low. Nonetheless it is a risk.

    Apparently the only folks who think the government can't choose not to pay on any given year are those who expect a pension, salary or welfare (Social Security, Medicare, Housing) check.
     
  12. CAcop

    CAcop

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    You are just talking about a multiyear contract being cancelled early. I m talking, your company delivers the product and then the government says, "**** you, we ain't paying."

    Can they do that per your contract with them?
     
  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    I've never heard of it. Depends on what the law says. The government can't spend a dime until it is appopriated. Let me give you an example that might be sort of what you're talking about:

    I sell $1MM worth of instrumentation to a government entity on a lease. The lease has a term of 36 months. The gov requires an annual out clause in case the government doesn't appropriate the money. Its called a muni lease.

    When the lease is signed, the 3rd party leasing company (or even finance company under our corporate umbrella) funds our company the entire amount (less finance charges). We're whole. Now, if the money doesn't get appropriated, the leasing company gets the equipment back. We have our money and they have used equipment that they have to figure out how to dispose of for pennies on the dollar. IOW, the finance company gets screwed.

    What are you getting at? How is not paying for a delivered product relevant to this discussion?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  14. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Just seeing what people know about contract law.
     
  15. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    I dont know much. We have legal.

    You?
     
  16. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    Try me.

    How does a court force a legislature to appropriate money? What does the court do when a legislature says piss off?
    Who appropriates to the money to fund the court system?
    When a state's court system submits a budget request, who does it go to?
    When they present their request, who is the person they call Mr/Mrs Chairman/Woman?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  17. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    What is a a pension other than a multi-year contract?
     
  18. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    he's busy googling contract law
     
  19. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Exactly my point. His company hedges his bets by having a finanicing company pay them up front. The financing company takes the hit if the government welches. Of course this is not without cost. I am sure it is pased onto the consumer/taxpayer.
     
  20. CAcop

    CAcop

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    I don't know about your state but in CA this matter was handled in the 1940s. The only way out for a city is bankruptcy. Even then they are stuck with certain realities. SJ voters slashed pay and benes by ballot. They are bleeding good employees. The SO in my county just picked up a bunch of guys from SJPD. The resumes of these guys is impressive. Homicide, Narc, SWAT. And that is just one of their guys. I think they even picked up a Sgt. The Assistant Chiefs are bailing too. The Chief is leaving earlier than expected.

    Like I said before you can stamp your feet all you want but it isn't goingt o change a thing. In case you didn't notice 2012 didn't turn out quite the way we would like. Of course I live in CA so I have watched this train wreck before.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013