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Report has public pension short fall at $4.6 trillion

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Mr981, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. Then why not have the current municipality state that because past administrations were responsible for these EPA violations, that the current administration is not responsible for them.

    And also because the past administrations knew they were violating EPA laws/regulations which would "someday" cause the municipality a huge fine, the past administration has effectively forced a future debt onto a future administration. Which they can't do. Which, therefore, the current administration should not be legally responsible for.
     
  2. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    Personally, I always have a few on staff. However, when we staff up, it can be a couple dozen at any one time.
     

  3. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    A muni does have the ability to tell the feds to take a hike, they don't because they don't have backbone to do it, but they certainly can.
     
  4. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    The executive can't pay if the legislative doesn't appropriate the money.

    I guess that's when you send the local sheriff to arrest the entire California Assembly?

    :rofl:
     
  5. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    So would the sheriff go to a city council meeting and force a majority of council members to vote to appropriate the money? Does he get to hold them in jail until they agree to vote yes?
     
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Oh dear God :faint:
     
  7. CAcop

    CAcop

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    If the courts rule that something is unconstitutional then there is no need for a vote unless they want to rewrite the law so that it stands review.

    My city just had a muni code ruled uncon. What would happen if I kept writing tickets based on it?

    The city is wisely rewriting the law rather than telling me to keep writing.
     
  8. In the EPA situation, what would be the repercussions for the municipality? Future federal funding? What else?
     
  9. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    The court would hold your agency in contempt and send the state police to arrest your entire agency.
     
  10. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    That is not even close to the same. It required no action at all, once it was ruled in violation of the state or federal constitution, it just doesn't exist anymore. If they rewrite it, that is their decision.

    How would the sheriff force to city council to appropriate money? I mean physically force them to do it? How does it happen, does he go take a check from the treasurer and write it himself?
    Would he arrest anyone who didn't vote the way a court ruled?
    Would be arrest them and then hold them until they agreed to vote a certain way?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  11. 2bgop

    2bgop

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    Yeah, almost entirely based on funding. There are a few other things they could use to screw with them, but almost everything comes back to money. No surprise there.
     
  12. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

    Coloradans voted Republican. Californians who moved to CO voted democrat. Our only problem is that the Federal law forbids us from not allowing Californians in.

    BTW. My state income tax is half of what your is. That right there is a big incentive..
     
  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    I'm guessing you participate in a public pension too since you jumped back in to wave the stupid flag. I mostly ignored this earlier but we can go ahead and pick it apart since you're back in.

    Excellent example. The congress could end either of those programs tomorrow if they could grow a set of balls or believe they could weather the political storm. Period. End of story.

    Social Security and medicare are nothing more than tax and spend entitlement welfare programs with a super powerful lobby.

    Of course. You think a legislature is somehow bound to purchase toilet paper on a multiyear contract that is iron clad?

    Yes. Those can certainly be defunded. Hell, DOD cancels new weapons all the time. There are threads right here on GT about it.

    Without a doubt. In fact, Louisiana is currently considering this very thing with its old Charity Hospital system. After Katrina, the VA Hospital in New Orleans never re-opened.

    The legislature has no constitutional requirement to fund a Level I trauma center. What was that about?

    The Congress can absolutely defund federal agencies. Do you not remember the talk of the Republican House defunding Obamacare?

    Do you know that there is a current law providing for a department to work with convicted felons who have served their time and wish to have their constitutional rights re-instated?

    It has no funding.

    There is no such thing as a multi year binding contract with the government.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  14. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Doesn't matter where they are from it is where they vote that counts.

    20 years is long enough for a generation of voters born of CA immigrants in CO to turn your state into CA.

    Don't count on your tax rate staying where it is.
     
  15. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    I wasn't playing word games. Nor was I being disingenuous. Of course funds used by gov agencies are the result of taxes (although some small donations do occur, of course). How else would the public ever receive any services, of even the most basic type, from any form of government if not funded by taxes?

    No special taxes, though (like ballot measures, dedicated parcel taxes, etc).

    When I was hired the typical life expectancy for a retired cop was often said to be an average of 2 years. The stresses of the job, along with injuries and what's now considered as 'presumptive' health conditions related to the working conditions, took their toll on cops.

    It's not an unknown situation for people working in LE.

    Perhaps it's better health care, nowadays, along with a better awareness of encouraging healthy lifestyles for public safety employees, and probably better preventive health care, which has seemingly benefited retirees who left the field after the 70's & 80's. Dunno. I can say that I'm seeing people of my "generation" retiring and living longer.

    A separate (but related) issue which municipalities have been facing in recent years are work-related disability retirements.

    When a large city finds that 70% of its public safety (fire/police) retirements have been work-related disability retirements, what would you change to prevent that from happening?

    Even when you factor out the fraudulent claims, it's still a staggering percentage of the workforce that's being injured on the job (including exposure to hazardous materials, pathogens, etc) and are unable to continue serving in their public safety careers.

    Personally ... and I acknowledge some small amount of personal bias in this regard ;) ... I think that serving in the public safety field for 25-35 years ought to be long enough for anybody, regardless of what age someone starts.

    BTW, I worked in the private sector for more than 10 years before entering LE. My family never had the same sort of everyday worries about whether I'd be coming home at the end of the day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  16. sourdough44

    sourdough44

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    And while it's totally underwater let's promise more benefits.
     
  17. I'm employed in the fire service in Alabama, and I'm a 20+ year Retirement Systems of Alabama(RSA) member.

    If it weren't for the RSA, the state's tourism would suck. The RSA developed the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail and has done more to promote the state than the state has.

    This being said, necessary changes to the RSA were made recently to stabilize the pension system. If the teachers would relent and give up their ultra cheap state paid for insurance that cops and firefighters do not get, it would be even more solvent.

    Alas, the teachers side of the system is filled with unsatiable socialists.

    I think I'm in the last generation of what we know as a traditional pension system, and rightfully so. The world is changing. Adapt or die.
     
  18. Absolutely in a public pension. 16 years years ago, when I first got in, the pension system told me that if I participated, they promised certain levels of retirement benefits. And in return, I agreed that I would contribute 7.5-percent of my pay, for the next 25 years. Of continuous service. And so a bargain was struck. If today, after 16 years of meeting their every demand and requirement, the pension system says "sorry, we're eliminating or decreasing your promised pension" you're darn right I'd fight.

    Also, because for the past 16 years I've relied on their pension promise, my pension is an important part of my retirement plans.

    Compensate me fairly today, for giving up my pension tomorrow? I'd seriously consider it. But if they can't compensate me fairly, and because for the past 16 years I've relied on their promises, I'm going to make sure I get everything that was promised me.



    Not to mention SS and medicare are mandatory enrollment. I never had a choice to opt out of SS. If I could get all my principle back from SS (Im not even asking for interest that began in 1978) today and not be part of it tomorrow, I would. SS was never part of my retirement plans, so I couldn't care less if it is eliminated all together.



    These are just examples of different government contracts and projects where it's easier for some to be cancelled without repercussions than others.

    Yes, Gov't have a right to cancel/defund. Fine. Let them. :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  19. engineer151515

    engineer151515

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    You'll get everything they promise. Just not in the form you expected. You'll be paid in highly devalued US dollars (or, worse yet, State issued IOU's) and be told to stand in the Obamacare line for your healthcare.

    The State will declare the "promise" was upheld.
     
  20. JohnBT

    JohnBT NRA Benefactor

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    "I'm guessing you participate in a public pension too since you jumped back in to wave the stupid flag."

    The stupid flag? I used to think you had at least a little class.