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Reloading for friends

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by njl, Oct 30, 2012.


  1. njl

    njl
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    I've been asked a couple times in the past by friends (once by a complete stranger at the Wal-Mart ammo counter) if I'd sell them my reloads. I've always refused either saying I don't have the time, don't have the right tools/components for their caliber, etc. I've done a bit of googling, and my understanding is, it's actually a Federal felony to do so without the proper FFL, not to mention the liability aspect.

    But, supposing I wanted to help someone out with some better than factory ammo at half the cost...could I sell them primers and bullets by the 100, trade out their brass, and instruct them in the use of my press? i.e. They'd compensate me for using my components if they didn't bring their own, and after some instruction, they'd be the one pulling the handle making their ammo? Ideally, they'd eventually get hooked, find a deal on a press, and be reloading on their own.
     

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  2. F106 Fan

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    I would never sell my reloads nor would I allow a non-family member to use them. Heck, I get nervous even with those conditions.

    I certainly wouldn't sell components. Somehow I have to believe there are restrictions on selling powder and primers. Selling bullets may not be a big deal but I don't know that.

    What I might do is show somebody how to use my press and have them bring their own supplies. I would watch them like a hawk to be certain their reloads are safe. Even then, I would worry every day until they were all used up.

    I'm old, I have CDO (like OCD but the letters are in alphabetic order LIKE THEY SHOULD BE) and I just don't want the responsibility or liability. One minor screwup and my 401k's belong to someone else.

    For what? So I can show off? If somebody wants to get into reloading, buy a book.

    Richard
     

  3. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm
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    Yes, to load ammunition for someone else and be compensated for it means you must abide by the GCA of 1968 and become an 06 FFL. You must also register with the US State Dept under ITAR as a manufacturer of defensive articles, just for being a manufacturer of ammunition.

    Restrictions on selling powder and primers are just state or local laws. In my area we have none. Federal law is silent as long as you aren't making and selling your own.

    Selling bullets is fine as long as they aren't ones you manufactured; if so then you'll need an 06 FFL and register for ITAR.

    What I do in my off time that I'm not loading for customers, is rent out press time. Customers bring their own components or buy them from me, load their own ammunition, and pay me a fee to cover use of the press. If they don't bring clean brass, they get charged for it to be tumbled. Do something like that you won't need an FFL.
     
  4. emb111

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    No, No and No. From a slightly different prospective that's a lot of liability. I will reload and have for a friend and his wife. But he reloads too-just not pistol bullets. I will only do it if I have the pistol and am able to work it up for that firearm. You never know what some nimrod will do with your ammo, the firearm they are using, or its condition.

    Also, I will not shoot anyone else's reloads unless I trust that person with my life and limb. And, I will not usually give out "recipes" for the same reason. It's a fallacy that a particular recipe will perform and function in the same manner even if the firearm is of the same make and model. So, there isn't much point in giving it out. The data is readily available elsewhere so why take on the liability if they hurt themselves using your recipe.
     
  5. cajun_chooter

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    might as well sign a check and give it to whom ever you sell any of your reloads... because if they hurt themselves shooting .. you can be sure you will get a call from their lawyer ..
     
  6. DoctaGlockta

    DoctaGlockta
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    Reloads for only myself or family.
     
  7. Zombie Steve

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    Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life.


    Just don't teach a man to cast boolits. There's no lead left. :whistling:
     
  8. Colorado4Wheel

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    I don't see a issue with selling some primers and powder. It's no different then when 5 of us go in on a powder/primer order and then split it up. Just don't make a profit. I also see no issue with letting someone use my press to load after I teach them. I am going to be doing that for a lady friend over the next couple weeks. I don't expect to make money on any of it. I would never "rent" my press either. Just helping out a friend. I would do that for any number of people I know.
     
  9. emb111

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    Selling for profit may make a difference from a licensing standpoint. It will make no difference in a personal injury case. The first thing a good and thorough attorney does is look for responsible folks, theories of recovery, and possible money sources.

    I would be extremely relunctant to reload for others, allow them to use my equipment, or attempt to instruct them on how to safely reload their own ammo. No one is perfect. How many of us have made a bad round or two? One squib load in inexperienced hands could be a "kaboom".

    For me the risk just isn't worth it. I have freely loaned out my "how to" videos and DVDs, reloading manuals and books and referred areas businesses who teach this skill. I know you are required to sign a release prior to taking the classes. That only makes sense.
     
  10. njl

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    I think half of you need to go back to reading comprehension 101. I started out by saying I knew it was illegal to sell reloads (without the right FFL) and that there's liability issues with selling/giving reloads to anyone. I wasn't asking about doing that...I know it's a bad idea.

    The question was could I sell supplies and give a friend some instruction and then give them time on my press? I'd read that you need an FFL to make and sell even just bullets, but I frequently see people advertising (mostly on the BE forum) to sell bullets [that they bought and no longer want], brass, primers, and powder. So my assumption was, it must be legal to resell reloading supplies (powder, primers, bullets, brass) without a license, and I don't see why I couldn't loan someone a reloading press...so is it any different if we save the trouble of unbolting and transporting it, and they use it at my place?

    I suppose there's still the "liability" aspect in that if they screw up and blow off some fingers, they might hire an ambulance chaser who'd point out "none of this would have ever happened if not for so and so giving you poor instruction in reloading", but I hope I have sufficient taste in friends to avoid that being a serious issue.
     
  11. Colorado4Wheel

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    I don't think your selling bullets. You just bought them together and they are taking their portion. That is how I would describe it. :whistling: They are friends right?
     
    #11 Colorado4Wheel, Oct 31, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  12. Three-Five-Seven

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    A major part of the personal responsibility of owning and shooting firearms is selecting, or assembling the ammunition that will be used.

    There is no way in hell that anybody should be in that loop except the individual gun owner and, or a reputable ammunition manufacturer.
     
  13. F106 Fan

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    I don't think it is a 'reading comprehension' issue.

    You buy something, you sell something, you are a business. Simple as that. There may be some wiggle room if they are close friends but don't count on it.

    I know that, in the case of boats, you can't even have your guests chip in for gas. The Coast Guard is all over that. They have the idea that you are running a charter and that requires licensing.

    Back to the topic at hand: If you are a business, you have to get a license. Do you have any idea what the storage requirements are for the primers and powder? In some areas, like where I live, you can't run most kinds of businesses out of a residence. You can't run any business that requires 'stock in trade' out of a residence.

    If you really want to be helpful, have your guests bring their own components. That gets you completely out of the 'business' end of the process. They can use your equipment and you can show them how to do the reloading. As long as you aren't charging for the time, there is no business going on.

    But it's still a huge risk for absolutely NO reward! What? You get to show off a little? Not necessarily in a bad way but what's the point?

    You asked for opinions and that's what you have gotten. My opinion is that this is an 'all risk, no reward' scenario. I wouldn't even consider it.

    Richard
     
  14. judgecrater

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    Even letting them use your equipment opens you up to huge liabilities.
     
    #14 judgecrater, Oct 31, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  15. shotgunred

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    I think some of you guys worry to much. I have no problem having someone over and teaching them to reload. I have no problem with helping someone setup their new equipment.

    If you are really worried about it have them sign a liability release.
     
  16. freakshow10mm

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    Correct and correct.

    Nope. No difference.

    It's really no different than a reloading manual stating they are not in control of components or process, therefore not liable. You as a seller of components have a very slight, but easily deniability of liability with the components. Your instruction is based on several manuals that in agreement with your process. The millions who follow the same don't have problems.

    In areas like mine, there is no restriction on what business is run from a residence.

    Even if he does charge rent for press time, big deal. Pay your income taxes on the profit and sleep soundly.

    To make money.

    If I borrow my mechanic's torque wrench to secure the wheel on my vehicle, and it falls off, is my mechanic liable or is my stupid ass for not using the tool correctly?
     
  17. Gpruitt54

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    I have a friend who has been asking me to make him some reloads. have not. I am concerned that my reloads are a legal liability for me, if one of those reloads hurts my friend of a stander by at the range.

    Is this a valid concern?
     
  18. F106 Fan

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    It might be if he didn't provide training. And if he did provide training, it might have been inadequate. Who is to say the mechanic was qualified to be a trainer.

    There are number of ways to chase this thing down a rabbit's hole.

    Even if the case is garbage, defending it can be very expensive. That's why most civil suits are settled out of court.

    Richard
     
  19. F106 Fan

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    It would be for me...

    But I live in the most litigious state in the union.

    Richard.
     
  20. plainsman

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    That's not even taking it into account that your perfect ammo might just blow up his gun, or even his Wiley Coyote gunsmith'd dremeled barrel.

    There's no telling what gun your ammo will wind up in.