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Recoil related to bullet weight

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by sdjoslin, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. sdjoslin

    sdjoslin

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mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} span.verdana11px {mso-style-name:verdana_11px; mso-style-unhide:no;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->Hello all, This is my first post here on GT.

    I need some advice . . . . .
    I have shot 1000 Rainier 165 Gr .40 S&W and now its time to order more.
    Especially since Midway has a sale on Rainier.

    They offer 135, 155, 165 & 180 Gr.
    I use it for the range. I would prefer a lite bullet in my Glock G23

    Which would be a light recoil and suitable for paper?
     
  2. ron59

    ron59 Bustin Caps

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    I've not reloaded for .40, but would imagine the same thing would be seen as what I've experienced with my 9mm loads.

    I've chrono'ed factory 115grain loads.
    I load my own 147grain loads, and chrono'ed them.

    Both have identical (or at least VERY damn close) power factor.

    The *felt* recoil on the 147s is considerably lighter. I didn't realize how much until I did a test. I loaded a magazine, alternating between the 115s and my 147s... WOW, what a difference. The 115gr recoil was louder, sharper, and the gun "flipped" more. The 147gr was subtle in comparison.

    I can buy 115gr bullets for much cheaper than the 147s, but I load 147s exclusively as I mostly shoot (or train) for competitions where fast follow up shots are required.

    If I was ONLY shooting slow fire, at paper... the 115gr stuff would be fine.

    YMMV
     

  3. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

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    Can't help you with .40, but welcome to GT.
     
  4. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    Comparing equal velocities lighter bullets will always produce less recoil than heavier bullets.

    Has something to do with those pesky laws of physics. Newton can explain it better.


    Jack
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  5. XDRoX

    XDRoX

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    Always bringing up laws of physics to spoil everyone's fun Jack:supergrin:

    To the OP, you'll probably be able to get the lightest recoil out of the 180gr bullets. Using the heavier bullets you'll be able to load less powder and still get the slide to cycle.

    It's really a balancing act, but I think you could get the least recoil with less powder and a heavier bullet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  6. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    What are you doing on the computer... aren't you supposed to be teaching those crumb crunchers that 2+2 equals what ever you want it to? :dunno:


    Jack
     
  7. XDRoX

    XDRoX

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    It was my lunch:whistling:
    Plus half the kids already passed out from the heat. Either that or my lecture:dunno:
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Jack is right (funny how that happens w/ the old guys) you can't deny physics. If the bullets travel at the same vel, lighter bullets ALWAYS have less recoil. The issue comes when you run lighter bullets to much higher vel. then the recoil can exceed heavies. Gamers like to run heavy bullets @ low vel for light recoil & still give reliable slide functioning w/o modifying springs.
     
  9. albyihat

    albyihat

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    for my plinking ammo i have gone to the 180s as has been stated large bullet and low velocity means less felt recoil, keep the vel. around 850-900 fps and recoil is minimal.
    5.8gr unique and a 180gr rainier is a wonderful plinking load.
     
  10. unclebob

    unclebob

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    I resemble that accusation.
     
  11. shotgunred

    shotgunred local trouble maker

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    Regardless what the old geezers say you want 180 gr for the G23.
    Less felt recoil for you, more penetration in you hard target. Your gun will love it and feed it just like it was made for it. You would think that the 40 sw was made for the 180 gr bullet.( because it was:cool:)

    Shove 4.0 gr of win 231 behind it and have a blast killing the evil paper men.
     
  12. fredj338

    fredj338

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    You are correct of course. I didn't address the paper killing ability, but light 155gr @ 900fps will also shoot well & recoil even less than 180gr @ the same vel. They will run in a stock Glock too.:supergrin:
     
  13. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    The hell with bullet weight, what's this 'old geezer' crap? You young'uns would freeze to death in the dark if is weren't for all the life saving conveniences we invented for you!

    Look around, you'll see the fruits of our labor... cell phones, remote controls, four wheel drive, flat panel television, breast augmentation and the natural follow up to it, Viagra.

    The scope of young people's ungratefulness never ceases to amaze me. (Oh, BTW, the laws of physics are just as much in effect today as the day the were discovered. Take it from an 'old geezer'. :supergrin:)


    Jack
     
  14. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Jack, I think a younger woman created Viagra to make sure us old guys can keep up with them (pun intended).:supergrin:
     
  15. glockaviator

    glockaviator

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    At the same velocity, heavier bullet will give more recoil.
    A better question would be, at the same MOMENTUM, would a heavier or lighter bullet give more recoil?

    Momentum = Mass x Velocity

    So you reduce the velocity in the same ratio as the mass increases, you get the same momentum.

    Example:

    M = ma x v
    M = 115 x 1200 = 138,000
    M = 147 x 938 = 138,000

    Would they both have the same felt recoil? I dunno.
     
  16. Glolt20-91

    Glolt20-91

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    To extend the above formula and put the numbers in usable form;

    Momentum
    The momentum of a .45ACP 230 grain bullet propelled at 860 feet per second is determined as follows:
    MV
    225120 = lb-sec momentum

    Step 1:
    Multiply M (M = bullet weight in grains) times V (V = bullet velocity in feet per second:
    230 x 860 = 197800

    Step 2:
    Divide the product of step 1 by 225120:
    197800 ÷ 225120 = 0.89 lb-sec momentum

    Using this formula and Winchester PDX bonded ammo, momentum for a 147gr at 1000fps would be;
    0.65 lb-sec

    124gr +P JHP at 1200fps;
    0.66 lb-sec

    Recoil is dependent upon MV, bullet/powder weights and firearm weight. These recoil numbers that I posted some time ago were gathered using RCBS software, notice how powder manipulation affects recoil;

    Bob :cowboy:
     
  17. DWARREN123

    DWARREN123 Grumpy Old Guy Silver Member

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    You need to try the different weight bullets to see which work for you since it is felt recoil which matters to most folks. This is due to bullet weight, powder charge, pistol weight and grip and can be different for each individual.
    I do like the power and recoil of Hornady 155gr HP/XTP's in 40 cal.
     
  18. Hoser

    Hoser Ninja

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    Heavier bullets spread the recoil impulse out over a longer period of time making it feel like it is kicking less.

    Actual recoil and felt recoil are two different animals.

    Light bullets make for fast and sharp recoil. Heavy makes for slow soft recoil.

    I have tried everything from 155s to 220s in the 40. Settled on the 180s and titegroup or N320.
     
  19. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    To light of a bulllet at a lower velocity will not cycle the gun well.
    To heavy a bullet at the same velocity my feel like a very heavy recoiling gun.
    Most people run the lighter bullet at a faster velocity and the heavier bullet at a slower velocity. That kind ruins the game of making it a easy pick. In .40 I would pick the 180 gr bullet using a moderate charge. This will work the gun and not be overly harsh in recoil. For gaming if you use the PF or momentum theory then the heavier bullet at a reduced velocity will have less percieved recoil the the light bullet at the faster velocity producing the same PF. Midrange bullets are your best bet for most purposes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  20. MSgt Dotson

    MSgt Dotson

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    I'd opt for 155's or 165s, and load them to 850-900 fps....

    Very mild, pleasant....