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Recoil difference with G22C? Arthritis-related question.

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Rex G, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Rex G

    Rex G

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    OK, first of all, I am aware of the disadvantages of ported pistols in real-life defensive situations, such as when shooting from a retention position. I also know the difference in felt recoil is relatively minor. That being said, I am considering a G22C as an orthopedic pistol, as my formerly stronger right wrist now hurts when shooting my SIG P229 duty pistol. I carried G22 duty pistols from 2002 to 2004, then switched to the DAK P229 for its better practical accuracy. Well, the higher bore axis of the P229, plus the snappy .40 recoil, is becoming a real problem now. I should trade a small bit of accuracy, for less damage to the old body. (The .40 S&W is my mandated duty pistol cartridge.)

    Going to the lower bore axis of a Glock should mitigate the recoil-
    induced pain and damage, aided by the cushioning effect of the polymer
    frame. I am wondering if the ports might help things just a bit more? I
    am aware that ports re-direct recoil, so the pistols recoils more straight
    back, rather than torquing upward, but it seems to be the torquing
    action that hurts.

    I would consider buying a standard G22 barrel for actual street use.

    I would especially like to hear from anyone who has adopted a "C" Glock for orthopedic reasons. Thanks for any insight/advice!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  2. plouffedaddy

    plouffedaddy

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    It will help; perceived recoil will be lessened a good bit. Honestly though; if you're having medical issues and that's driving this purchase I wouldn't risk aggrivating it and I'd opt for the 17C instead. The terminal performance differences in the 9 & 40 with quality defensive ammo is relatively minor. Just a thought :dunno:

    Good luck and let us know how it works out.

    [​IMG]
     

  3. Rex G

    Rex G

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    Thanks! I bought a G17, already, hoping my chief would allow the 9mm as an alternative duty pistol cartridge, but that proposal was set aside indefinitely. I must still tote a .40 in my duty rig.
     
  4. English

    English

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    I am sure you are thinking along the right lines, but the problem is that the Glock is also lighter. You would be better off with a Steyr M1-40A but there is not a compensated version and special barrels from an Austrian company, whose name I forget, are very expensive. Next best would be a G22 with a 6 inch barrel with compenstation ports or slots at the end beyond the frame. This would give it a little extra weight and better leverage for the compensation. Lone Wolf do such barrels and would probably cut compensation ports for you., but so would various others.

    Incidentally, I am sure that the softer shooting characteristics of Glocks is nothing to do with flex in the frame and everything to do with the lower bore axis and more angled grip. The Steyr grip is better than the Glock's, but the compensation is not available. If you can find one to shoot anywhere, it would be worth the trial.

    English
     
  5. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    Sig P226? It's a bit longer and somewhat heavier.

    Richard
     
  6. Pardoner

    Pardoner

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    I can't speak for the 22C, but I have played with a 23C and the porting did a really good job of taming the recoil.
     
  7. Arc Angel

    Arc Angel Deus Vult!

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    You have my sympathies! I've got arthritis in my hands, too; and, much as I hate to say it, there are days when I know it adversely affects my pistol shooting. I, also, have almost 40 years of experience shooting ported pistols; and, just so you know, I almost universally disagree with a lot of the ported/compensated pistol advice I read on the Internet. (Where everybody seems to be an expert on subjects they've had very little experience with, and actually know next-to-nothing about!)

    I very much doubt that a ported pistol is going to be of any good use to you; however, certain compensated pistols might be. (You will, of course, need to use an open-bottomed holster in order to make this work - OK.) ;)

    You're going to need: (1) an extended - and, probably, threaded AND indexed - pistol barrel; (2) a weighted - and ideally - 3 slot compensator that closely approximates the outside dimensions of your pistol's slide.

    I found THIS on the Internet; you might want to take a look at it. Good luck! I hope you find a useful solution. By the way: There's one other thing you could do, right now, to make pistol shooting easier for you. HOGUE HANDALL (I'm going to buy another one, for myself, later in the week.)


    PS: Have you given any thought to changing your diet? The popular crap that Americans seem to love to ingest, everyday, might also be screwing up your wrist.

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445422

    My wife has read Dr. Davis' book; and we started eating this way months ago. It seems to help!

    ADDED: I don't know what I was thinking; BUT, because a compensator takes a lot of energy out of a semi-auto's recoil, I forgot to mention that you might also need to pickup a reduced weight, 'Recoil Calibration Pak' (Part #13141) from Wolff Gunsprings!

    http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=5#117

    Before buying anything this is a matter I'd discuss with, both, the compensator's manufacturer as well as someone like Dave Koebensky at Wolff Gunsprings. Significantly lightening the recoil spring in a Glock might, also, destabilize the close, 'balancing act' among the: recoil, trigger, and FP springs.

    The problem is to use nothing less than standard weight trigger and FP springs along with the compensator, AND still get the whole setup to work 100%. You might, also, want to run this by your Department Armorer.

    (The other problem with simply using a heavier recoil spring is that you can't always trust the pistol to feed. This is another thing that would need to be tested with, I'd say, at least 300 rounds before carrying the pistol in the field. Paradoxically, adding an attached tac light to a setup like this might actually improve overall performance by allowing the frame to straighten out and the slide to speed up.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  8. jbglock

    jbglock Manos Arriba

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    My duty weapon is a 17C. Off duty is a 23C. It will help but how much is hard to say for you. My suggestions considering you are mandated .40 are...
    1. gen3 22C.
    2. Streamlight mounted to the rail and the appropriate retention holster. I'm not a fan of gun mounted lights but they add weight in an area you really need it.
    3. 180 grain ammunition.
    4. If allowed weighted baseplates as a last resort if the first three don't do the trick.

    Honestly I'd be shocked if they didn't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  9. JBP55

    JBP55

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    Arthritic hands here as well and shoot more 9mm than anything else. Are you allowed to carry a Gen 4 G35? The felt recoil is better than a ported Gen 3 G22.
     
  10. Rex G

    Rex G

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    Thanks for that useful bit of information about the G35 recoil! Actually, I might be able to "game" things a bit by qualifying with a G22 upper unit, which is when they actually see the pistol, and then discretely carrying with a G35 upper unit in place. One K9 officer of my acquaintance did just that. I reckon that is one of those "ask for forgiveness, rather than beg for permission" scenarios. One of the benefits of night shift is that few of the brass are around to notice small details.
     
  11. Rex G

    Rex G

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    Thanks! Yes, a weapon-mounted light, is one option I do have. I already use 180-grain ammo, originally because its point of impact better matches my SIG's point of aim, but its less-snappy recoil is a bonus. There is no prohibition on weighted base plates, so once I settle on the pistol I will be using for a while, I will probably buy some.
     
  12. jbglock

    jbglock Manos Arriba

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    I don't know. The gun is actually the part below the slide with the serial number. I've made changes to my off duty piece since qualifying it and their is no issue as we have no official policy. Unofficial is we can do anything to any weapon as long as it is owned by us. Changes to city owned weapons require prior armorer approval. Maybe your department has no policy also. It's not like you will be changing the caliber or load from what you qualified with or is approved right? :)
     
  13. Rex G

    Rex G

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    Arc Angel, thanks for the information on compensators. That might be an option, if I can find one compatible with our duty holsters. I am afraid my hands are too small to accommodate a Glock with a Handall on it.

    English, thanks for mentioning a longer barrel with porting. That is an option.

    F106 Fan, a P226 is certainly possible, especially if I can find a heavier P226ST in .40, but that is certainly a very costly option. Thanks, however, for mentioning it.

    Thanks to all who have responded!
     
  14. Arc Angel

    Arc Angel Deus Vult!

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    You're welcome! This is what I use; it's a muzzle-ported, and NOT a slide-ported, or compensated barrel - OK. It's just my opinion, of course, but I think Glock's barrel and slide porting system (Which, for some reason, the factory calls, 'compensated') absolutely stinks. All the (legitimate) complaints you hear about ported pistols apply, most appropriately, to slide AND barrel ported pistols.

    [​IMG]

    I've got 3 of them. The reduction in, 'perceived recoil' (or any other kind of recoil) is not greater than 8 to 10% during slow fire. To get the benefits of 12 to 15% recoil reduction you'd have to be firing fairly fast (like a triple tap, or thereabouts that sort of speed).

    A Pachmayr, 'Tactical Grip Glove' does NOT add that much to the overall width of the grip.

    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/59086
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  15. Rex G

    Rex G

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    Thanks, Arc Angel. As my goal is to reduce pain and damage from cumulative recoil, every little bit helps. A G22, with such a barrel, carried in a holster made for the longer G35, might well be a practical solution, as I believe Safariland does make our specified duty holster for the G35.
     
  16. Rex G

    Rex G

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    Indeed. The K9 officer I mentioned did just that; we buy our own duty pistols. Swapping upper units is not specifically prohibited. With the news that a G35 recoils less than a G22C, I am strongly considering this option.

    Thanks to all who have responded thus far! It seems the two best options are a G35 upper unit, or an extended ported barrel made for the G22, rather than the acquisition of a G22C. The advantage of a G35 is that I may be able to rent one locally for a test-fire.
     
  17. barth

    barth six barrels

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    If you have to use a 40 and are having recoil issues.
    Do you have any choice at all with ammo?
    180 gr subsonic ammo tends to have less felt recoil to me.

    Federal makes a soft shooting Hydra-Shok 165 gr 40 too.
    Part Number: P40HS3GBullet Style: Hydra-Shok® JHP
    Muzzle: 980 fps, 352 E

    Compared to
    Federal HST 165 gr 40 - Muzzel: 1130 fps, 468 E
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  18. JBS

    JBS

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    Do I understand that your Department issue is .40 S&W and is not weapon specific? Are you allowed to supply your own weapon as long as it is .40 S&W? If this is the case go old school and use an all steel weapon. More weight and mass less recoil to your hand. I know several Officers that have gone that direction and it has worked out very well for them.
     
  19. barth

    barth six barrels

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    That's a good point I hadn't thought of.
    A steel frame Sig P226 maybe?
    One other option might be a Heckler and Kock P30 40.
    I have one.
    And the HK recoil reduction system really does seem to work.
    Particularly with some Hogue rubber grips.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  20. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    In addition to the ported or "C" version you can get a heavier guide rod and spring.

    I did that to my Glock 21C, and it kicks less than my 9mm glocks.