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Receiver peep sight on a bull-barreled Mosin

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by toshbar, May 10, 2012.

  1. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    I just got a Mosin receiver mated to the UK-59 machinegun barrel....that was a trip. :wow: It involved my MIG welder welding the barrel in place, grinding it free cause headspace was too tight, and then rewelding the barrel back in place.

    Test fired it today with it tied to a tree and everything checks out good. First time I've headspaced anything. :supergrin:


    Anyhow....I want to put irons on it and am trying to figure out which williams/lyman receiver mounted peep sight to get and how to mount it so I can still remove the bolt. Do either of the companies make sights that rotate out of the way so the bolt can slide out? I also am wondering what model sight I could use that would fit the contour of the side of the receiver.
     
  2. countrygun

    countrygun

    17,069
    17
    Mar 9, 2012
    Mybe something from the old sporting Steyr/Manlicher???
     


  3. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    Cool, but this one went for $472 on GB.

    [​IMG]


    I think i'm going to get the Lyman 57SMET for $70. It has a quick removal of the slide that allows the horizontal part to be removed with a button push. I'm going to have to move the bolt handle to the absolute farthest forward point on the bolt. Either that or turn it down in its current location and make it super thin to slide under the sight.

    After I get that mounted, I'll measure height above bore and order the correct Lyman 17a front sight and weld that on. That, or i'll cut a dovetail like it's supposed to go into.

    This rifle is going to look like I slapped it togther(which i have), but it's going to be 1 moa if I can get the trigger worked out. I already polished surfaces, but the weight is killing it. maybe lop off a few coils from the striker spring?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  4. The striker spring has NOTHING to do with the trigger. The spring inside the bolt(the striker spring as you call it) only controls the firing pin strike and the cocking and uncocking of the weapon. The sear spring is what controls the force needed to use the trigger. There are ways to improve it but I'd suggest you just buy an aftermarket trigger if you're not familiar with gunsmithing or the rifle you're working on.
     
  5. 427

    427

    6,997
    0
    Nov 23, 2009
    KUMSC
    Get a Finn reworked trigger. You can usually find them on the Gunboards trader for reasonable prices.
     
  6. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    The trigger weight increases after the striker is cocked. This would lead me to believe that the striker spring has something to do with trigger weight. When the bolt is not cocked, trigger weight is reasonable.

    I'd love to hear your ideas on reducing the sear spring weight. I have some ideas of my own, one of which is to thin the leaf of the spring to make it less resistant to flexing when the trigger pushes down on it.


    The trigger is one of the last things I'm worried about right now. #1 issue is to get sights on this thing.

    I'd really like to hear ideas or suggestions on a rear sight setup that gets an adjustable aperture at the rear of the receiver, while still allowing the bolt to be removed from the rifle for cleaning. Relocating the bolt handle and shaving off part of the bolt is not an issue for me. I just need some hardware suggestions that don't break the bank. I have $100 into it so far and would like to keep the whole thing under $250.

    Maybe I need to hit a fabrication forum for this kind of stuff.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  7. I saw a peep sight on a nagant, the guy drilled and tapped the cocking piece and put a silng swivel stud into it and used that as a peep sight. You can thin the width of the spring, or you can bend it but there are some other tricks too. Thinning is a better option then bending, the bending will screw with tolerances and won't be as repeatable. Before you screw with the spring I would suggest you buy at least one spare. Look over how the sear releases the bolt, that might give you a clue on something most people forget to smooth out.
     
  8. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    I polished all the contact surfaces on the trigger, sear, and bolt where the pieces touch each other. It's plenty smooth now, just really heavy.

    I've seen the sling stud into the cocking piece too, and am afraid it won't be nearly precise enough for what I'm trying to do, and only adjust vertically in 2moa increments.

    I just ordered a Lyman 90MJT along with the Lyman 640 mounting base. There were two mounting bases available, one was for a 1" receiver and one was for a 15/16" receiver. What is the dimension being measured here. The sight is marketed for .22 rimfire rifles, but I think it will hold up just fine to the mild recoil of 54r coming out of a 12 lb. rifle.

    Anyhow, I'll see how to mount up this rear sight and see how it works.
     
  9. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    Here's what it looks like so far. 11.3 pounds as it sits. The muzzle is right at 1" in diameter. Very slow rolling recoil. I'd put the impulse at less of that than a normal .223 bolt gun.

    [​IMG]

    And here's what I had to weld to keep the barrel from rotating. I didn't use loctite because there was some wiggle between the receiver and barrel that I wanted to tighten up. The weld goes all the way around.[​IMG]

    I'll probably clean up the weld later when I get everything worked out right before I finish the metal.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  10. method

    method

    4,189
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    Mar 27, 2002
    Cleveland, OH
    The dimension being measured is the diameter of the receiver, so that the mount matches the curvature. I don't have any experience with Mosins, but looking at pictures, it's going to be tricky mounting a receiver sight. I'd do some more research before ordering anything.
     
  11. countrygun

    countrygun

    17,069
    17
    Mar 9, 2012

    ahhh......

    Uhm.......


    ..........Nah. nevermind, carry on.
     
  12. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    I've been researching the hell out of this for the past 3 days. I can't find anywhere that anyone has done anything like this other than the guys who have screwed the sling stud into the cocking piece of the bolt, which isn't what I'm after.

    I can send the parts back to optics planet for a full refund/exchange.
     
  13. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    Yes, I know.

    The problem was that I screwed the barrel in too tight trying to headspace and crushed the barrel shoulder that provides resistance. When the headspace was correct and the extractor groove cut, the barrel would spin in the receiver, so I had to shore that up.

    Funny(not really) part was that I headspaced it too tight the first time, so I had to grind through weld all the way round and back the barrel off about a 10th of a turn, then reweld. major PITA.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  14. countrygun

    countrygun

    17,069
    17
    Mar 9, 2012

    Well.............while I'm here...........I gotta ask a couple of "little, "teensy-weensy" questions.

    How, given the situation you outlined, did you ever get the boltface, barrel face, and receiver "trued up"?

    Did the welding have any effect on the heat treating on the receiver or barrel?
     
  15. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    I put a strip of eletrical tape on the headstamp of an empty case and closed the bolt on that while I welded it It held good force on the whole setup to get everything in line.

    I don't think the welding had any effect on the heat treatment. I did small lines, switching sides to avoid it pulling as it cooled. I also waited quite a while between strips of weld. The barrel absorbed a TON of heat, but didn't get too hot to touch. It stayed warm for quite some time though.

    Method, that's exactly what I was looking for. Don't know why it didn't turn up in any of my searches. Good to know that it is possible. The sight I bought will move the aperture further rearward than the 57SMET I was going to buy.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  16. The proper way to do that would have been to rethread the barrel until it hits the shoulder, if it was to long cut or file it until you get it onto the shoulder then take a reamer and ream out the chamber.

    You really should have used a set of headspace gauge, the trick you did is fine for checking to see if a rifle is ok, but it is not ok to set a rifle's headspace by. Personally I wouldn't touch that rifle because of the welding, some might call me a wimp but it isn't worth it to me. Did you use any heat absorbing paste?
     
  17. He probably won't shoot it off the shoulder, at first :whistling:

    Did I miss the part where you don't want to drill the receiver for a scope? Or why not just weld/bolt a section of rail to the top of the barrel, and put a long eye relief scope on it? I'm a big fan of mosins set up for scout rifles (even though yours weighs as much as a mountain bike :tongueout:) with the scopes out front. Doesn't interfere with operation of the bolt or loading of stripper clips, and no scope bite :steamed: I've been whacked good by a mosin (I know your boat anchor recoils like an AR, but other mosins.)

    I dig it though, for sure! I'd grap an ATI stock off ebay and hog it out to free-float that massive barrel. That's a bamf rifle.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  18. toshbar

    toshbar Timber Baron

    4,146
    13
    Oct 20, 2009
    Eastern NC
    I understand where you are coming from, but I am confident the thing is headspaced properly. I chambered a shell with the bullet and powder pulled, and kept working the bolt as I rotated the receiver onto the barrel which was clamped in the vice until the bolt would barely not close on the case. I then backed it off just so the bolt would close without extra force and marked the barrel and receiver. I put my empty case with the electrical tape on the headstamp into the chamber. The bolt would not close on this unless I pushed hard enough to crush the tape. I don't know the thickness of the electrical tape I was using, but I'm sure that is within tolerances of a mosin.
    I sure won't shoulder it first. I've shot 3 rounds with it strapped to a tree trunk, with me on the other side of the tree trunk well shielded. The extractor wasn't working and I had forgotten my cleaning rod back home, so I used some .22 shells to stack in the barrel and push out the case. This got old after 3 shots. I just got finished reworking my exractor, and now it works good. I'll take it out and do 40-50 shots with it strapped to the tree to make sure everything is good.

    Yes, it could grenade on the 51st or 1014th shot. I know this, and am aware that this can happen with any rifle.

    I thought about slapping a rail on the barrel and doing the scout scope. I also considered the ATI mount that mounts to the receiver and comes with the turned down bolt handle. I just think it'll be that much cooler to have some precision irons and a 30" sight radius. The one I ordered will sit right over the round part of the cocking piece, if not further back when mounted, so I will still be able to drop stripper clips in.

    Not real sure what I'm going to do about a stock yet. I may just lay the barrel on a sandbag and go to town.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012