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Range trip tomorrow..... finally

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by nickE10mm, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

    4,156
    81
    Apr 13, 2004
    Wichita, KS
    I will finally have some time to hit the outdoor state-owned range tomorrow morning. WOOHOO! Gonna take the Fusion longslide, the Glock 20SF w/Barsto and my new Ruger 22/45 pistol. Now that I can shoot cast in the Glock, I'm gonna be able to shoot up all of the cast loads I'd made over the last several months (but never shot), plus will be trying out some of my high pressure loads in the Glock that I never shot from it because of the stock barrel. I'll also be shooting some hardcast (WFNGC) max loads for accuracy. Should be a hoot!

    I'll try and get some pics of the outing...
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  2. We're looking forward to your range report. Just don't forget to take along protection equipment inc. gloves and don't forget to enjoy fully :wavey:
     

    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012

  3. arushus

    arushus Biggest Member

    2,541
    1
    Jul 22, 2011
    NE Oklahoma
  4. gwsanfor

    gwsanfor

    171
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    May 9, 2011
    NC
    Me too! I'm going down to the family farm where we have four ranges, to chrono my first 10mm handloads (VV N105, VV N340, VV 3N37, VV 3N38, AA #9, Blue Dot, Power Pistol, and Longshot) as well as Underwood 180gr FMJ, PPU Jhp, Blazer 200gr TMJ, AE 180gr FMJ, Hornady Custom XTP, Georgia 180gr Arms FMJ, and and Buffalo Bore 189gr JHP. My buddy id bringing his never-fired AK-47, so it should be a fun day. Got down there yesterda late, and ran out of light. I'll report the results here on the tab labelled "First loads, 15 Jan 2012".

    Nick and I are on the same program. My Bar-Sto dropped right into my G20sf after just a little filing on the hood. It's tight as a tick, but has not had a FTF yet, with factory, handloads, JHP or FMJ. My brass is not bulged with that barrel, whereas Underwood was bulging significantly with the stock barrel.
     
  5. gwsanfor

    gwsanfor

    171
    0
    May 9, 2011
    NC
    So I must have beaten Keith home.

    Had a pretty good day with the chrono, new handloads, and the G20sf. Results are at I Am A Spammer. Please Report Me./HF2oV on the "First loads, January 2012" tab.

    The gun was a Glock G20sf with Bar-Sto barrel, OEM 17 lb recoil springs, and 4.5 lb OEM connector. Handloads were assembled on a Hornady LNL AP with all virgin Starline brass 0.87 " length 24.6 gr H2O water capacity, Federal #150 LPP, OAL 1.250, medium crimp, and the bullets were Precision Delta 180.3 gr FMJFN 0.595" length 0.400" diameter. Temperature 40F, altitude 640 ft above MSL, no wind, partly cloudy. Chrono was a ProChrono Digital 10 ft from the muzzle and 11 ft from the target. Propellants were individually weighed on a MyWeigh i201 scale (because some of these powders meter like corn flakes), and included VihtaVuori N105, N340, 3N38, 3N37; Accurate Arms #9; Alliant Blue Dot, Power Pistol; and Hogdon LongShot. Commercial rounds were Underwood 180 gr JHP, PPU 180 gr JHP, Blazer 200 gr TMJ, and American Eagle 180 gr FMJ. I ran out of light and was unable to chrono Hornady Custom 155 gr XTP, Georgia Arms 180 gr FMJ, Buffalo Bore 180 gr JHP, Underwood 180 gr FMJ, Underwood 165 gr GS, Underwood 135 gr JHP, Underwood 180 gr XTP, Underwood 180 gr GS, and Underwood 165 gr JHP, and will chrono them next weekend or as soon as weather allows, switching to 20 or 22 lb recoil springs.

    Standard deviations for the VihtaVuori propellants were 13-19, equal to or better than all commercial rounds tested today. Other SD's were 17-30. N105 and 3N38 ran about 45 fps faster than Quickload predicted, Blue Dot 127 fps faster, and Longshot 101 fps faster. AA #9 ran 98 fps slower than predicted. I'll be looking into reasons for all these variations. VV powders ordinarily track QuickLoad to within a few fps.

    The N105 had substantially more felt recoil than N340, the latter of which was very soft, even though having a pressure 10,000 psi higher than N105. 3N37 and 3N38 were in between. I had trouble getting LongShot to register with the very dependable ProChrono Digital, and suspect excessive ejecta or fading light, the latter of which curtailed the session.

    Of the commercial rounds I got to, Underwood was superb as always, and right at the advertised 1300 fps. Very good stuff. The PPU and Blazer have no reason to exist, running 782 and 1038 fps respectively. AE was also underloaded at 1015 fps, but was noticeably more accurate than the other two low-power commercial fodder.

    My shooting buddy Charlie brought his nice Hungarian AMD-65 AK47, which he had for a year but had never shot (!). It's a fine weapon, and it was a good day. Yesterday my Father-in-Law came down with a mint Browning HiPower, and proceeded to put 10 rounds in a group the size of a nickel, and then left, having demonstrated casually who is the best shot around these parts. It sure ain't me ....
     
  6. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,520
    21
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    I like your data and especially the result from Underwoods stuff...I wonder what powder he's using for those loads...Did you see any expansion, bulges or smiles or was your chamber support and lockup sufficient to prevent smiles?
     
  7. gwsanfor

    gwsanfor

    171
    0
    May 9, 2011
    NC
    The Bar-Sto seems to completely eliminate bulges even in Underwood, which appears to be loaded at or near the SAAMI max. It will pay for itself pretty quickly in reduced brass costs, as much as I shoot. I saved the brass in separate labeled bags, and am going to examine it more closely tomorrow, but my initial sampling looked very good.
     
  8. Ethereal Killer

    Ethereal Killer

    363
    0
    Aug 24, 2011
    GWsanfor,
    you are gonna start a riot if you claim that quickload more or less accurately predicted your velocities!! :whistling:

    For some reason some people around here (at least with the 10mm) seem to have serious doubts that it's even close. in my experience, if you enter the data correctly and get the case capacity and seating depth and bullet length right it's been within EASILY 100fps. usually it's closer to +-30fps of course that can be lot to lot and primer variances too. Those who have not spent to get this program and learn to use it correctly have NO idea what they are missing. It's simply one of the best time and money saving tools a reloader can buy IMO.

    awesome data keeping. it looks like that 3n37 wasnt as bad as we thought huh?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  9. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,520
    21
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna

    Is the Bar-Sto barrel stock length? or Extra as compared to factory? :dunno:
     
  10. gwsanfor

    gwsanfor

    171
    0
    May 9, 2011
    NC
    Ethereal, QuickLoad has limitations (like no propellant data for 800-X :crying:, no apparent input for magnum primers, etc.), quirks, and a steep learning curve, but it works well once you learn how to use it. To get good results, you absolutely have to enter actual measured values for case and bullet dimensions, because the ones supplied are significantly innacurate in some instances, and you can get stacked tolerance effects. Also, although it's based on the old Powley Calculator, which was based on IMR powders and certain bottleneck rifle cartridges, it seems to be the best of the various internal ballistics simulators. I find that it generally gives me within +/_ 30 fps (or better) of actual, if used properly, and if you consider that the typical handgun bullet loses about 1 fps per foot travelled, so that for a 10 feet distance from the muzzle to the chrono, you should add 10 fps to your chrono result. VV powders have usually been dead on, others not so much. There are various adjustments to the QL variables explained in the manual, such as case volume, weighting factor, initiation pressure, and brissance (Ba) of the propellant. You can make slight adjustments and "calibrate" QL so that once you have real chrono data, you can then be pretty sure that changes to the load in question are accurately reflected by QL.

    It's certainly not a perfect tool, but once you have it set up for a particular powder, case, bullet, temperature, etc., it seems to give pretty accurate estimates of pressure and velocity. I could hardly load without it. Having said that, I find that it tends to estimate conservatively low, and therefore fails safe, but I would not use it to load full house max pressure rounds without confirming some lesser charges empirically with a good chrono. Not trying to start a flame war, YMMV, etc., but QL was about the best $150 I ever spent for reloading.

    There is a lot of information about tweaking QL and using it's more advanced features, like:
    http://www.6mmbr.com/quickload.html
    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-581706.html
    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2574516
    http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412190
    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-594960.htmlshowtopic=129835"]http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=129835
    http://www.the-long-family.com/Tuning%20QL%20to%20achieve%20best%20results.pdf
     
  11. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,617
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    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    gwsanfor, you have been busy! Lots of loads. Lots of variables. There is a lot of data here to work through. Thanks for compiling it and sharing. I appreciate a fellow spreadsheet geek like myself. :supergrin:
     
  12. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

    4,156
    81
    Apr 13, 2004
    Wichita, KS
    Great data and links here, sir. Thanks
     
  13. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

    4,156
    81
    Apr 13, 2004
    Wichita, KS
    Okay, so I DID get out to shoot on Sunday morning but the range was PACKED and, even though I was literally the first person in the door, I got bumped out of my range lane since there was a line of people waiting. I had close to 500 10mm rounds to shoot and probably the same amount of .22LR to shoot but hardly made a dent in my ammo pile. I shot maybe 130 rounds of 10mm in both the Glock and the Fusion TOTAL. I was really just getting warmed up when they called out my range number 50 minutes after I arrived and I had to pack all my gear away and leave. BOOOO!!!!!!

    My admittedly sparse details are as follows: The Glock functioned GREAT with the new Barsto barrel. NO failures to feed with any of my various handloads (Berry 180gr, Hornady 180 and 200gr XTP's, Rainier 180gr and Beartooth WFNGC 200gr's, however, I did have feeding problems with my 175gr Suter's LSWC loads. There were all kinds of jams and stutters with this load. I will have to look into what caused the issues. I fired mild, medium and very hot loads through the Barsto and the cases are all coming out with a diameter of .425-.426"... about what they come out as from the Fusion barrel -- EXCELLENT case support. The Glock DEFINITELY kicks harder than the Fusion with full loads. Ouch. It was about 30 degrees that morning so maybe that had something to do with it. :)

    My Fusion showed me why I paid such a premium for it. What an absolute monster of a pistol. I had ZERO malfunctions of any kind with the longslide. Boringly reliable and deadly accurate. I'm including my first 15y target of the day.... The Glock rounds are on the left, the Fusion in the middle at bottom and the 22/45 rounds are on the right.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Great day at the range.... but I really need to go to my buddy's house in the country or my Dad's with the chrono so I can really do a proper range report.

    Well, I guess its back to the ol' reloading bench...... :tongueout:
     
  14. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,617
    117
    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    Thanks Nick. I would say that the Fusion looks to be a keeper. Nice shooting there.
     
  15. gwsanfor

    gwsanfor

    171
    0
    May 9, 2011
    NC
    Stock, 4.61".
     
  16. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    2,688
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    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
  17. Jitterbug

    Jitterbug

    870
    6
    Aug 27, 2002
  18. arushus

    arushus Biggest Member

    2,541
    1
    Jul 22, 2011
    NE Oklahoma
    Those holes look like they were made with a hole punch! Are you playing tricks on us nick???? :)