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Range Report AK vs AR

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by Alaskapopo, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

    6,545
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    Feb 6, 2000
    Alaska
    RANGE REPORT: Saiga AK47 vs. Colt 6920
    Date 12-14-09 and 12-15-09

    [​IMG]
    VS

    [​IMG] during this test I took the 3x magnifier off the weapon to make it a fair contest.

    [​IMG]

    Just to start this is not a thread to bash either weapon. But I decided to see which weapon was best for me at the range. Rather than just go off assumptions. On 12-14-09 I fired several types of rounds from a bench in the Saiga to see which was the most accurate. That turned out to be Federal American Eagle at 1.70

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  2. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    Feb 6, 2000
    Alaska
    Then on 12-15-09 I took out my Colt 6920. I used reloads loaded with BLC2 powder, Military primers and military 62 grain bullets (SS109) . A while back I got these bullets at a great price on line. This is not military ammo but it will have to do. The specs are close as I could get as a reloader. The results for this test was the Colt averaged 1.41[​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here are a few range pics
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Earlier in the month I fired a variety of weapons in a simple CQB drill. (Start from low ready and fire 2 rounds at 3 USPSA targets spaced 3 yards apart and 7 yards from me.
    Here are the results from the Saiga vs. the Colt.


    Gun Saiga AK47 Red dot (Aimpoint ML2)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j3i_n7LuP0

    1. 2.91
    2. 3.28
    3. 2.71
    4. 2.71
    5. 2.67

    Average time 2.86

    HITS

    T1 9A 1C
    T2 10A
    T3 9A 1C

    Total hits: 28 A 2C

    Colt 6920 Aimpoint (Flash hider no comp)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFlJVVZDx68

    TIME
    1. 2.87
    2. 3.08
    3. 2.79
    4. 2.75
    5. 2.87
    Average 2.87

    HITS

    T1 8A 2C
    T2 9A 1C
    T3 8A 2C

    Total hits 25A 5C


    CONCLUSION:

    The AR had a slight accuracy advantage from the bench at 50 yards with similar optic set ups. On the speed drill both rifles were pretty much dead even with .01 of a second going to the Colt. These guns are a fair comparison in my opinion because both represent some of the best in their breed. (Russian AK vs. Colt AR) and both have similar upgrades in optics and triggers. The AK has a 2 stage trigger that is one of the better ones I have used.

    I still need to do a long range shooting exercise. But at close range of 50 yards or less I feel that these weapons are about equal. I never gave the AK full credit before but if you set one up with a good optic and put an extended safety on it its not too bad. I also need to do some tests including reloads and other gun manipulations. The AR has the edge at long range and at speed of reloading but I want to document it. This report is not meant to be a slam on either gun. I like both systems a lot.

    Pat
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009

  3. Javelin

    Javelin Got Glock? Silver Member

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    Feb 9, 2008
    N. Dallas
    Now you should take a WASR out and tell us how those groups are.

    No more AK bashing posts from you for a while huh?

    :whistling:
     
  4. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    I could take my Mak 90 out it does not group nearly as well as the Saiga. If you put good ammo in the AR it does a lot better. But I wanted this to be a fair contest. I will admit I was surprised by the results. No more AK bashing from me.
    Pat
     
  5. WayaX

    WayaX Lifetime Member

    2,594
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    Feb 27, 2007
    I really regret getting rid of my Saiga (gave it to a friend). I wouldn't own any other make of AK. My main beef with the gun isn't the common accuracy argument, but the ergonomics to me are atrocious. Yes, you can bring it on target quickly, but it's just uncomfortable to use.
     
  6. javelinadave

    javelinadave Hebrew Hammer

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    Aug 14, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    An AK is good for 100 to 200 yards at best.
    An AR is good to 800 yards +/-.
    That is with iron sights, optics may push that out a bit but I'll take an AR any day in a gun fight.
     
  7. jokeruh

    jokeruh

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    Feb 3, 2007
    Pat,

    Thanks for the testing.

    I think you have settled (by this test) one of the two biggest internet rumors - that AK's cant hit barn door outside of 25 yards (the other being that AR's are not reliable and can't shoot more than 30 rounds without breaking).

    Obviously, with good optics and decent ammo the AK is reasonably accurate (though I know that the AR will best it at longer ranges).

    I have several AR's and several AK's. I much prefer the ergonomics of the AR but I still prefer the AK overall. I can understand why many prefer the AR though.

    Thanks again
     
  8. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    I like the AR as well. But 800 yards plus is something that needs good optics or a very skilled shooter with Irons. I frankly can't see well enough to hit a man sized target at 800 yards. I need to do more testing. But I believe the AR is a good gun to 400 or 500 with optics and good ammo (75 grain TAP) I believe (hypothises) that the AK with good ammo and optics is probably good to 300 yards. Again I will have to test these theories. Both do what assault rifles were intended to do. That is fight inside of 300 yards.

    The Stock Ak vs the stock AR is a different story. The sights on the AK limit it quite a bit. I also hate the stock safety.
    Pat
     
  9. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    I agree both are excellent guns and it depends on what you value more and what your needs are.
    Pat
     
  10. fivestar

    fivestar

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    Oct 15, 2004
    Very nice comparison, and beautiful scenery. I wish I was there.

    A couple of years ago I sold off my 2 AR's, AK, and Sig 556 due to divorce. I've since been able to buy back my AK from a friend. I'd like to get another AR sometime in the near future. However, that's a lot of money for me now. I've been playing around with the idea of getting an Ultimak rail for my AK and getting another Eotech and having that as my "go to" rifle. My AK isn't on par with your's though, as it's just a cheap WASR.

    Thanks again!
     
  11. Atl_Jay

    Atl_Jay

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    Oct 9, 2002
    Atlanta
    Thanks Pat! Very informative.

    What brands of x39 did you shoot? I have Saigas and am curious about the best commercially available ammo.

    Regards
     
  12. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    I posted a range report in this thread. It lists all the ammo I shot.
    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1158377
     
  13. Hedo1

    Hedo1

    1,101
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    Oct 1, 2007
    SE Pennsylvania
    Good report I enjoyed it. I'm an AR guy but I own and shoot both weapons.
     
  14. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    Alaska
    Me too. I like both guns but am more of an AR guy.
    Pat
     
  15. Jack23

    Jack23 I. B. Glockin'

    1,672
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    Feb 10, 2005
    Deer Park, Texas
    I enjoyed reading your test results. I am new to the world of black soulless rifles and went through a length decision making process to decide AR or AK. AK or AR??? I finally settled on the AR and I too bought the Colt LE 6920. I will be getting the AK next year. I admire the effort you seemingly made to keep this test objective and "fair" I recently saw Gunny Lee Ermy do a comparrison between the AK and M16 but it was focussed on caliber performance. Of course the AK left the M16 in the dust on that one.

    If you do any further testing please post up the results. A lot of us noobs like to read and learn.

    I'm kind of a purist on this gun. I prefer to leave it bone stock if possible but at my age I may need to put some optics on it of some kind if I want to shoot beyond 50 yds, Which I most certainly do. I can consistently produce the ONE-RAGGED-HOLE at 25 yards through the iron sights and I'm sneakin' up on being there at 50yds. I'm going tomorrow and I expect to have it tightened up to that same ability at 50yds by the time I leave there. But The old eyes aint what they were 43 years ago when I last fired a military rifle.
     
  16. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    Alaska
    I enjoy doing these reports. I will try to do more this Monday and Tuesday. I want to do a drill at 100 yards and I also want to compare reload speeds.

    As to caliber the 7.62 has the 5.56 on barrier penetration but the 5.56 has the edge in tissue damage. That may change with Hornadays new Vmax load.
    Pat
     
  17. Suburban

    Suburban

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    Mar 8, 2003
    PA
    do times include taking the safety off?
     
  18. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo NRA ENDOWMENT

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    Feb 6, 2000
    Alaska
    Not when these were filmed (at least not for the AK). But since I have added a Krebs safety which is very fast.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Bingo, I could not say it any better. Great comparison Pat. :thumbsup:
     
  20. ampdog

    ampdog

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    Aug 11, 2008
    Great Post, Please keep us up to date on your testing!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Also, to be fair we cannot forget the AK's biggest strength, reliability. It will work through all kinds of environments, neglect, and abuse.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I am an AR guy too because of ergonomics, but I have to say the AK is getting better in that area too, with all of the new upgrades on the market.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>