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Question regarding Judas.

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Tilley, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. Tilley

    Tilley Man of Steel

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    Did Judas kill himself or was he murdered?


    If Judas' demise was investigated today, would it have been a suicide or homicide?


    And, did judas commit the unforgivable sin?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012

  2. Dexters

    Dexters

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    Sounds like a case for CSI Jerusalem.

    Where do you get the homicide aspect?
     
  3. Guss

    Guss

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    And yet another of the Gospels tells that he fell on some rocks. If the Bible can't get it straight, I don't think anyone today will figure it out.
     
  4. Guss,
    Remember, even today "eyewitness" testimony is not consider 100% accurate. The "fact" to come away with from the Gospel accounts is HE KILLED HIMSELF. How he did it is not important to the story. I am with Dexter where did the homicide angle come from?
     
  5. Guss

    Guss

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    Killed himself? When one of the Gospels says he fell on some rocks busting a gut? The fact that there are two different accountings in the Bible tells us we are not going to find the answers there.
     
  6. WS6

    WS6

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    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=65734

     
  7. It is possible for both to be true.

    He hung himself, the rope broke and he fell into the rocks below.

    All of the information was not supplied.
     
  8. Guss

    Guss

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    If we are going to speculate, perhaps he was trampled by unicorns.
     
  9. Guss

    Guss

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    The two stories are sufficiently disparate that at least one of them has to be poor reporting. One says Judas tossed his money back at those who had paid him. Another says he bought a field with the money and then died there.
     
  10. WS6

    WS6

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    Where does the Bible state that about the field?

    EDIT: Acts 1:18.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  11. Guss

    Guss

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    Getting back to the murder angle, in the Gospel of Judas, he tells of a dream that the other apostles stoned him to death. Was this a premonition?
     
  12. WS6

    WS6

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    Why should anyone give credence as to what this 'gospel' states regarding Jesus or the apostles?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas
     
  13. Guss

    Guss

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    Personally, I don't see why any of the Gospels are given much credence. But we can only work with what we've got when we want to talk about Judas Iscariot. The Catholic Church may not like it's existence, but like it or not, the book is there.
     
  14. Again, both stories do not rule the other out.

    Judas tossed the money back at those who paid him. They didn't want it back because it was blood money. They purchased a field for burying the indigent with it.

    So Judas in a sense bought the field.

    Matthew 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
    27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter’s field, to bury strangers in.

    Acts 1:16 ’Men, brethren, it behoved this Writing that it be fulfilled that beforehand the Holy Spirit spake through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who became guide to those who took Jesus,
    1:17 because he was numbered among us, and did receive the share in this ministration,
    1:18 this one, indeed, then, purchased a field out of the reward of unrighteousness, and falling headlong, burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed forth,
    1:19 and it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem, insomuch that that place is called, in their proper dialect, Aceldama, that is, field of blood,
    1:20 for it hath been written in the book of Psalms: Let his lodging-place become desolate, and let no one be dwelling in it, and his oversight let another take.

    You just have to get the whole story to make sense of it.
     
  15. WS6

    WS6

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    This point does not address my question.

    What is there about the text that can credibly link it to events of the early to mid-part of the first century A.D.?

    I doubt that the Church really cares about its existence.
     
  16. G23Gen4TX

    G23Gen4TX

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    IMO, Judas is a fictional character in the Jesus story and is name that so the church can blame the Jews for the death of Christ. (Judas = Jew in Hebrew).
     
  17. WS6

    WS6

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    From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

     
  18. G23Gen4TX

    G23Gen4TX

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    The Catholic church is not the one who named him Judas. It was done before that.
     
  19. Tilley

    Tilley Man of Steel

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    There is an old joke...

    Q: How many LAPD police officers does it take to push a handcuffed suspect down a flight of stairs?

    A: None. The a-hole tripped and fell.

    As a police officer I find it a bit hard to believe that a guy of such lousy character as Judas would feel bad enough to hang himself. Who knows, maybe Sandusky will off himself for what he did...or Charlie Manson...or Teddy Kennedy. I think there were a lot of people who had motive to be mad at Judas that night for what he did.

    Second, the only time I ever saw a person's guts pop out is when the body is decomposing. Judas had just hung himself...so how did his belly open up if he did not have any help?

    Then there is the conflicting story of how it happened:

    1. He hung himself.

    2. He tripped and fell.

    Matthew was an eyewitness to these events and he said hanging. Luke had second hand knowledge and said he tripped. Granted, Judas was a dirtbag and deserved to die, but their stories here are really very weak.

    The other question I have is if Judas committed the "Unpardonable Sin." Did Judas have free will or was he predestined to become the betrayer?