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Producing ID / CHL Upon Request - Texas

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by KevinFACE, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. KevinFACE

    KevinFACE

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    I'm failing to find it specifically mentioned in the handbook or any specific cases on websites etc. If anyone could point me to what is the "common interpretation" or exact language I'd be much appreciated.

    I know if there is no reasonable suspicion as a non-license carrier that you do not have to produce identification during a police contact if you've done nothing wrong, at least in Texas. (correct me if i'm wrong)

    My question is, in the same scenario where I'm pulled over for no reason and/or stopped on the street for no reason and I'm carrying, do I have to produce license / chl and inform that I'm armed, etc. ?

    This may start a pissing match but I'm genuinely curious.

    Trolls please jump off a cliff prior to posting in this thread.

    This is not a cop bashing thread either. This kind of stuff does happen and I want to know my options.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  2. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker

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    Law says provide CHL/DL when asked by Peace Officer or Magistrate. Penalty for failing to do so was repealed a few years ago.

    It is in the Government Code.

    Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013

  3. KevinFACE

    KevinFACE

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    Does that apply when there's no reasonable suspicion that something has been done wrong?

    What one would consider a Terry Stop? (i.e. no reason for them to be bothering me)
     
  4. RenegadeGlocker

    RenegadeGlocker

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    Yes, since CHL is a licensed activity, you have to ID yourself. As I said, there is no penalty if you fail to.
     
  5. Caver 60

    Caver 60

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    Not sure where you're coming from? I haven't been pulled over since 1978 and that was for rolling though a stop. Last time before that was 1967 and I was speeding.

    In any event go here:

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/

    And click on Texas and read. Only thing better would be to actually read the Texas statutes themselves.
     
  6. KevinFACE

    KevinFACE

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    As I said, I've used the various websites and what not, I didn't find a specific reference (perhaps I just didn't understand it) to this scenario.
     
  7. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    One of the problems with these type situations is that you often (nearly always) do not know what the officer knows. Even though you may know you have done nothing, what happens if you happen to come close to the description of a guy they are looking for. Even though you have not violated any traffic law suppose a car similar to yours has just been used in a felony.
     
  8. Caver 60

    Caver 60

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    That's pretty well my thoughts. People rarely just get stopped for no reason, even if it's what you think is a wrong reason.
     
  9. KevinFACE

    KevinFACE

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    I agree that it's rare, however, when you're part of that 3% of licensees that it has happened to (like me) you want to know as much as possible.
     
  10. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    And the other half of this problem is the police may not be under any specific obligation to tell you why they stopped you, but that may not mean that they do not have a perfectly valid reason were the stop to be scrutinized in court or as part of an investigation based on a complaint.
     
  11. RagnarDanneskjold

    RagnarDanneskjold Senior Pirate

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    Count yourself lucky. Here in Cali, the requirement to notify varies by county. How stupid is that? I have thus far been unable to find a list, anywhere, of which counties do, and do not, require it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  12. KevinFACE

    KevinFACE

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    You need to find a new state.
     
  13. RagnarDanneskjold

    RagnarDanneskjold Senior Pirate

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    Behind the Tofu Curtain

    Oh, I've found some nice ones. Have to finish some things here before I can actually leave, though. Financial and Family obligations take precedence over location preference. Soon, though... Just a few more months...
     
  14. F14Scott

    F14Scott Luggage CLM

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    Given this verbiage, it seems to me that the crux of the issue is the word "demands."

    During a traffic stop, when the officer asks for your license, the correct interpretation is that he demands your license.*

    During a Terry stop, I would suspect that if a LEO has the reasonable suspicion to detain and Terry frisk you, then he has the authority to demand your ID. Also, if he is Terry stopping you and you are carrying, showing your CHL RFN might save everyone a tense moment.

    *Sidebar. I hate how LEOs choose to phrase orders as polite requests. If a cop says, "Sir, would you like to step out of the car, please?", he has made two errors: "would you like" and "please." A perfectly acceptable response would be, "No, thank you."

    To me, an old military guy, requests that may be turned down should be phrased with "please." Orders should be orders, although they certainly can be as polite as possible. "Sir, step out of the car." "Sir, put your hands behind your back." Etc.
     
  15. RagnarDanneskjold

    RagnarDanneskjold Senior Pirate

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    I tend to agree, although merely using "please" doesn't make something a question, to me. "Sir, please step out of the vehicle." is clearly an order, whereas "Sir, would you mind stepping out of the vehicle?" strikes me as a request.

    I think many people wind up waving their rights on request, because they don't realize they have a choice, or fear the officer's reaction to a refusal.

    Many years ago, my landlady called the local PD because I had removed the screen from my bedroom window. The policewoman at my door said "May we come in?" and I said "No, but I'll step out and speak to you." From the look on their faces, both she and my landlady were positively astonished that I'd refused to let them in my apartment.

    About two years ago, a buddy was doing a ride-along, pre-employment, with a Texas LEO. At a traffic stop, the LEO asked the driver "Do you mind if I take a quick look through your vehicle?" and the driver said "Yes, I do." Officer said "Ok, have a good night." and sent the guy on his way. Back in the cruiser, he told my buddy "I've been doing this six years, and that's the first time anyone has refused me permission to search."

    Apparently, saying "No." is pretty rare.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  16. Fallout

    Fallout County Mountie

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    Just because you believe an officer has no reason to compel you to produce your ID doesnt mean they dont. Some battles are better fought after the fact then during the initial contact unless you are a youtube warrior trying to make case law. There is lots of avenues to address your grievances with law enforcement that dont involve a pissing match.
     
  17. KevinFACE

    KevinFACE

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    Yeah, there are a lot of idiots out there who love to roll over.
     
  18. ray9898

    ray9898

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    Just how will you plan to know there is 'no reason'.
     
  19. KevinFACE

    KevinFACE

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    Ask..
     
  20. RagnarDanneskjold

    RagnarDanneskjold Senior Pirate

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    I don't think anyone is advocating, or even considering, failing to obey a lawful order, and anyone with reasonably good judgement is likely to assume orders lawful until the situation is resolved. There's no harm in knowing your rights and the law, though, as long as you're not planning to be a barracks lawyer in the heat of the moment. I read this as more academic discussion than anything else. An officer asking you to produce ID isn't the same as an officer saying "drop the weapon", or even "out of the car". I typically assume an officer stopping me has a reason, even if I don't know what it is.