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Privilege of Marriage

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by hogfish, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. hogfish

    hogfish Señor Member

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    I saw earlier a news report, and just now when I got back to the web, about a couple being denied marriage by the First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs, Mississippi. I don't know how to 'link', so I can only write what I read about.
    Also, I wasn't sure if this should go in politics or religion so...

    The couple were set to be married and a small group of church members opposed the couple being married at that church. The preacher ended up marrying them at another venue in order to make everyone happy, in what he saw as a good compromise. It's reported that when the rest of the congregation heard of this, they were outraged, and could not understand why such a thing would happen.
    The couple is black, and the church is predominantly white.

    Do you think the church had a right to discriminate in this fashion?

    Thanks.
     
  2. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    To post a link: highlight and copy the address bar info, then paste it in your response.


    Isnt it amazing the lengths a group will go to, in order to make others feel like lesser individuals.
     


  3. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    Obviously, the preacher found a compromise the church could live with. The congregation can have any opinion that they wish, I'm sure there's another church they could go to that would more closely match their values.

    And yes, if the church decided they didn't wish them to be married there, they have every right to say no.
     
  4. hogfish

    hogfish Señor Member

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  5. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    The link works. It seems pretty sad they waited until the day before the wedding. I guess the membership has a constitutional right to be racist scumbags. Hopefully others in the community choose not to be a part of their church any longer and they go bankrupt. That is the price for small mindedness.
     
  6. hogfish

    hogfish Señor Member

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    This is a tough one for me because I believe they were in their right doing this, but I feel like I'm condoning racism.
    So, Religious Liberty and all: Is there any text in The Bible (either Testament, but New Testament would be better, being they're Christian) that supports this action?

    Thanks.
     
  7. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    You're not condoning racism by affirming the right to have your own opinion and to associate with like minded people, even if that opinion is repugnant to you.
     
  8. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    Saying someone has a right to be a "Racist Arsehole" does not make you one!:supergrin:
     
  9. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    If it was based on race alone, that is extremely poor form and manners, and since the wedding was cancelled at the church just the day before, I think it would be very appropriate for the congregation to pay for the entire event, and maybe even kick in a little extra as a wedding present.
     
  10. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    Its very easy. No right at all to discriminate in that manner in this case. The pastor caved to the baser instincts of the mouth breathing component of his congregation.

    If you can point to something in Baptist doctrine that supports discrimination against blacks and/or white superiority, then it might be a difficult call. You would have first amendment issues in play there, a very high bar to clear.

    But its clear in this case, there's no doctrinal basis for the small group to protest that, as the majority of the church was apparently appalled by the decision.

    That pastor needs to grow a pair.

    If this was a case of Westboro Baptist Church refusing to marry a gay couple after gay marriage becomes legal, they have every right to refuse to marry them, as it goes against their religious beliefs.

    Similarly, if this was a case of a Christian Identity church where their belief includes white supremacy, segregation of the races as part of their "doctrine", then they have a First Amendment right to believe that way, as distasteful as it is.

    Randy
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  11. janice6

    janice6 Silver Member

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    My wife and I are from the North.

    In 1958 I was in the Navy and stationed on a ship out of Charleston, SC. I asked my fiancé to come to Charleston to be married. She wanted to be married in the Catholic church; she is Catholic, I am Protestant.

    I went to the registrars office to get a marriage license and was told that the clerk would have to "see" my wife before the license would be granted. They had to prove she wasn't black. No "mixed marriages allowed".

    The Priest in Charleston was told that because I was not Catholic, we could not be married at "the altar".

    We have been married for 54 years now.

    Neither the church nor the state was significant in our lives.

    Leave the couple alone.
     
  12. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    That in a nutshell is why I'm an advocate for gay people wishing to get married.

    My wife is black, but for the grace of god, if we had been born 50 years ago, it'd be the govt telling ME I couldn't marry HER.

    Screw that. You can take my wife when you can pry her from my cold dead fingers. I was lucky enough to be born when I was, when it wasn't an issue. I'm just paying forward my good luck. The govt that can control that aspect of my life is a govt that is WAY TOO POWERFUL AND INTRUSIVE.

    She's Catholic, and I'm not, but we were able to get married in her church, Catholic priest, the whole 9 yards. Times they are a changing, eh?

    Randy
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  13. janice6

    janice6 Silver Member

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    Yes, I guess they are. although, people will never get tired of telling you what you can and can't do.
     
  14. Syclone538

    Syclone538

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    I'm libertarian, almost anarchist. The initiation of force is (almost?) always wrong.

    Forcing someone to preform a marriage is wrong.
    Forcing someone to not preform a marriage is wrong.
    Forcing someone to allow you to use their property for your marriage is wrong.
    Forcing someone to not get married at all is wrong.

    Did the church goers have the right to get mad at the preacher? Yes, I don't have the right to tell them they can't.

    Did the couple have the right to get married? Yes, I don't have the right to tell them they can't.

    Did the preacher have the right to marry them? Yes, I don't have the right to tell them they can't.
     
  15. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    Agreed, however when the preacher originally agreed to allow them to have the ceremony at the church, he entered into a contract. The invites went out, plans were made. They pulled the plug the day before, which was BS.

    Getting married is stressful enough, they didn't need that little gem thrown their way.
     
  16. High-Gear

    High-Gear

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    Good Man!

    .
     
  17. Syclone538

    Syclone538

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    Should he have honored the agreement? Yes. Not doing so was pretty low.

    Did he have the right to back out of the agreement? I don't know, I don't have an answer here.

    In theory, the answer is to have a written contract with penalties for either party backing out, maybe escalating penalties as it gets closer to the big day.
     
  18. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    Funny, that's not what I'm being called in other threads concerning this topic... :rofl:

    Randy
     
  19. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    What business is it of anyone elses?

    I say Good on You also.