close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Primitive reloading

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by cosmose, Nov 29, 2011.


  1. cosmose

    cosmose
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    871
    2
    Location:
    Alabama
    Hi guys, Dave Canterbury did a video on reloading Black Powder shotgun shells in the field, He used very basic tools to do so, he used Pyrodex powder and even used an old rag for the patch/wadding and he used bb gun bbs for the load
    http://www.youtube.com/user/wildernessoutfitters#p/u/10/F85LMFWKwTo

    This really intrigued me, and might actually be the push for me to get into reloading, he made it sound very simple but i have some questions on reloading black powder shotguns shells.

    what is the difference in Pyrodex and black powder (any links would be appreciated) also any links on black powder shotgun shells reloading.
    also how dangerous is this using black powder? my understanding is black powder is a lot more forgiving than smokless?
    I want to read up on everything i can on reloading black powder shotguns shells so any and all links would be appreciated:)
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. ron59

    ron59
    Expand Collapse
    Bustin Caps

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    6,927
    20
    Location:
    Smyrna, GA
    Wow, I found that very interesting and educational. You're right, he made that look VERY simple.

    I would like to hear what guys a little more knowledgeable about blackpowder and shotguns have to say about this.

    Jack ?
     

  3. m2hmghb

    m2hmghb
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    8,607
    5
    Location:
    Livin in the country of NJ
    Black powder is highly corrosive, pyrodex was developed as a substitute for black powder, meaning it has similar burn characteristics without the corrosion. Black powder can be dangerous, when you see it in tins it's usually one that will not collect a static charge, the same for powder measures. It can be set off by a spark.
     
  4. DoctaGlockta

    DoctaGlockta
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    2,110
    0
    Location:
    FEMA Region IV
    Hey great link. I was always told never to use black powder in rifles or pistols but I guess it flies in a shotgun. Thanks for the info.
     
  5. paintballwannab

    paintballwannab
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    929
    0
    Location:
    Youngstown OH
    #5 paintballwannab, Nov 29, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  6. cosmose

    cosmose
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    871
    2
    Location:
    Alabama
    so after shooting pyrodex can you clean the gun just like after shooting smokeless? also does the pyrodex equal the same measure as black powder? or do you have to convert it?
    Thanks for the link!
     
    #6 cosmose, Nov 29, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  7. cosmose

    cosmose
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    871
    2
    Location:
    Alabama
    Dave has some awesome vids, he even shows how to load the single shot like a muzzle loader http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES59LtA7XE8
     
  8. Adjuster

    Adjuster
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    13,543
    1,045
    Location:
    Deerfield Beach Florida USA
    Cool video.
     
  9. m2hmghb

    m2hmghb
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    8,607
    5
    Location:
    Livin in the country of NJ
    That much I couldn't tell you. I know that they also make pyrodex pellets that are at set grain weights but I can't tell you the loads. There is more fouling with pyrodex then smokeless, but less then with black powder. http://www.hodgdon.com/pyrodex.html
     
  10. dkf

    dkf
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    5,382
    93
    Wheres the Bush Hippie?
     
    #10 dkf, Nov 29, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  11. ron59

    ron59
    Expand Collapse
    Bustin Caps

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    6,927
    20
    Location:
    Smyrna, GA
    Oh believe me... I'm very interested in his channel. I definitely plan on reviewing ALL his videos. I'm at work now and just watched that one, but I saw several others I'd like to look at later.
     
  12. RWBlue

    RWBlue
    Expand Collapse
    Mr. CISSP, CISA
    CLM

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2004
    23,475
    809
    I have not loaded for a shotgun, this is rifles, single shot pistol and revolver knowledge. And I haven't done it in a couple years so check to make sure I haven't had a moment of stupidity.

    Blackpowder is an explosive.
    Pyro is a propellent.
    Both are very corrosive.

    Black and pyro come in different sized granules (F, FF, FFF, FFFF). A load is different for different sized grains. Bore size makes a difference in what grain size to use, although I have done some substitution and not had a problem.

    For the same sized grain, the powders (black and pyro) are very close to the same load by volume. This is not to say they are the same. I had better results with Black in the caplock and better results with the pyro in the inline. DON'T MEASURE EITHER BY WEIGHT!! because they can be off by weight. I think they absorb water in the air, but I don't think that theory has ever been confirmed.

    There were some non-corrosive powders, but I never had any luck with them.

    Good luck, don't load blindly. Find a manual.
     
  13. RWBlue

    RWBlue
    Expand Collapse
    Mr. CISSP, CISA
    CLM

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2004
    23,475
    809
    No. Treat it like BP.
     
  14. DoctaGlockta

    DoctaGlockta
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    2,110
    0
    Location:
    FEMA Region IV
    Can't seem to find a charge in my ABC's of reloading for a stack of BB's in a 12 gauge hull with bees wax and a couple of rags loaded on a wood stump :dunno:
     
    #14 DoctaGlockta, Nov 29, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  15. ron59

    ron59
    Expand Collapse
    Bustin Caps

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    6,927
    20
    Location:
    Smyrna, GA
    I was wondering about his statement, but you put it in a much funnier way.
     
  16. GioaJack

    GioaJack
    Expand Collapse
    Conifer Jack

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    10,016
    1
    Location:
    Conifer, CO
    Fun videos to say the least but I don't see any practical application other than a lot of fun factor. Why not just carry a muzzle loading shotgun and cut down on all the work?

    While black powder shotguns can be loaded with any granulation from FG to FFFG, (FFFFG should be avoided since it will develop too much pressure), Pyrodex will obviously work but produces erratic ignitions and pressures. While black powder shotguns are very forgiving in how they're loaded the same is not true with black powder rifles... accuracy and consistent pressures will suffer.

    It was originally thought that Pyrodex was a safe alternative to real black powder... until the original Pyrodex factory blew up. Even though Pyrodex is slightly harder to ignite, (you can really see the difference in flintlocks) many misinformed cities, (Denver being one of them) prohibit the storage of more than one pound of black powder, making it impossible to walk into a gun shop and buy a can of Goex, Swiss, etc. but yet buy as much Pyrodex as you want. Doesn't make any sense... I have 50 pounds of black powder delivered to the house by UPS.

    Cleaning black powder guns is greatly misunderstood and has turned many potential shooters off to the joys of it because they think it's too much trouble. Many still think that you need to boil a cauldron of water and spend two hours cleaning your rifle or shotgun after each shot. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    As many of you know I have a rather extensive collection of custom made black powder rifles, (both percussion and flint) and shotguns, (percussion and one in-line for shooting competition trap doubles), and none of them have ever seen a drop of water, other than shooting in the rain or snow. A small, $3.00 bottle of Black Solve makes a full quart of patch lube and cleaning solution. Simply mix it into a small spray bottle and slip it into you possibles bag... in the video he refers to his possibles bag as his 'pack'. It's a lot easier than finding a stream.

    Loading and shooting a muzzle loading is a lot easier, and quicker than the system used in the video and at no time would you have to leave your shooting position to load or reload. Your possibles bag will easily carry enough supplies for 50 to a 100 shots and if you want to make loading even quicker carry a separate powder horn and shot horn over your strong side shoulder.

    Rather than having to worry about carrying enough cloth for improvised wadding why not just carry over powder and over shot card wads in your possibles bag... more than a 100 of each will easily fit in a film container or you can just let them sit in the bottom of your bag... or in a shirt pocket.

    If you don't want to swab your barrel to clear fouling every couple of shots simply use a moist fiber wad over your over powder card wad. (You can moisten it with a spray of Black Solve, spit, plain water, urine, (yeah, I know), or pre-moisten them with a mixture of mineral oil and mineral spirits... they will stay moist for weeks. With each subsequent shot the fiber wad scrubs the barrel of fouling. Using this system I only run a cleaning patch down the barrel after ever 25 round of trap or skeet even when shooting competition at the nationals in Friendship. (I've been known to do fairly well on occasion.)

    Being very hydroscopic any gun firing black powder, (this goes for Pyrodex too), should be protected with a light coating of oil after the day's shooting has been completed. If you live in a very low humidity area as I do several days without oil causes no harm... back east it's a different matter but if you're going to start shooting again the next morning it's not imperative.

    Technically any round that can be loaded with smokeless powder can be loaded with black powder, especially handgun rounds, (they may not produce enough pressure to operate the slide on all semis but they will shoot without problem). Bottle neck rifle rounds require a bit more experience but straight wall rifle calibers are a joy to shoot with black powder... most of them started out that way.

    As I said, the videos were most entertaining and informative, it's just not something I would bother doing... hard to teach an old dog new tricks.


    Jack
     
  17. DoctaGlockta

    DoctaGlockta
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    2,110
    0
    Location:
    FEMA Region IV
    Dude you need to put that in Wikipedia.
     
  18. RWBlue

    RWBlue
    Expand Collapse
    Mr. CISSP, CISA
    CLM

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2004
    23,475
    809
    Although I like Dave and have done some things off book. There is probably a good reason for that load data not being available..:whistling:

    Some of the cowboy shooters are reloading BP and Pyro. The load data should be available. If you then want to go off book you can slowly work off book.
     
    #18 RWBlue, Nov 29, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  19. ron59

    ron59
    Expand Collapse
    Bustin Caps

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    6,927
    20
    Location:
    Smyrna, GA
    Jack,

    Not certainly trying to debate you, because I don't know **** from shinola when it comes to blackpowder anything or shotgun reloading.

    From an outsiders point of view though... Wouldn't sitting down and loading up 10-20 of the hulls and carrying them with you, then being able to eject one and load another *immediately* be of some value?

    As well.... wouldn't you be able to use a *normal* shotgun with normal shotgun shells, then use it for this method... clean it properly, then return to normal shells? I'd imagine a muzzle loading shotgun wouldn't allow using shells.

    For me... when I'm hunting I want to hunt. I wouldn't want to take a shot, then have to pour/pack/stuff/pack/pour/pack/stuff/pack (whatever the process is) before I can shoot again. What if I came across a bunch of things I could shoot if I could get another shell in there quicker?

    Just playing Devil's Advocate here. Edumucate me I'm on my incorrect viewpoints.
     
  20. cosmose

    cosmose
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    871
    2
    Location:
    Alabama
    Thanks for the info:) I was thinking it would be easier to just carry wadings also but its good to know you could do it with just a rag
    I think that is what Dave meant, load up at least 10 at camp then go hunting.


    I'm still having trouble finding any links to loads, I really want to study up on this but do not want to blow up my gun..... as a side not how hard would it be to mess this up to the point of a ka-boom or damage to the gun? (one of my biggest fear when it comes to reloading) I have read that its pretty hard to screw up Black powder?
     
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
Primitive roof material? The Okie Corral Jul 6, 2014
Primitive survival rating test The Okie Corral Jul 4, 2014
reloading The 10 Ring Jul 17, 2011
Primitive Camping in Arkansas?? Hunting, Fishing & Camping Sep 7, 2010
Primitive Camping? Hunting, Fishing & Camping Jan 23, 2010
Duty Gear at CopsPlus