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Presumed Guilty by way of Gender

Discussion in 'The Furball Forum' started by Kingarthurhk, May 8, 2011.

  1. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    It's happened twice. It is starting to irritate me. Hopefully, there won't be a third. I am not sure which irritates me more, the delay in care, or the assumption of guilt because I am a man. I will give you two scenarios. In the first instance, my wife was chasing her worthless cat to corrale it for the evening. Being somewhat genetically clutsy, she lunged for the cat and ignored the bamboo arrangement in our Chinese aniversary vase. She managed to cut up her cheek and bleed pretty good. I was unsure whether it had perferated into the jaw, and she was going into shock and panic.

    I have handled emergency situations for years as an occupation. When people freak out in an emergency I get calm and handle the problem. The time to adrenaline dump is after. So, I got her a towel, told her to hold it tight and to keep pressure on it. I took her to the living room, elevated her feet, and covered her with a blanket, because I knew she was in shock. From there, I dialed emergency services, got the door open and ready for a stretcher, made sure all the lights were on, kept her as calm as I could and kept an eye out for the ambulence.

    They arrived. It was my scene, I was in control of the problem. I tried to explain the sitaution to the EMT, a woman. She blows me off, and talks to my wife, who in as much pain as she is, does her best to explain it. Still incredulous, she won't act until she sees the bamboo with the blood on it and the blood trail.

    Then, and only then, does she start caring for my injured wife. Needless to say I was pissed off.

    Flash forward two years later. I am off of work (day off) and in the bedroom nursing a migraine. My wife is in the other room and the kids are playing outside. The back door burst open, my son is screaming, he has a huge bloody gash in his forehead. My wife, freaks out and she is screaming. I run out of the bedroom to be greeted by this scene. He's screaming, praying, declaring he is dying, she is yelling, "What do we do? What do we do?"

    I run to the kitchen, grab a dish towel, and toss it to her and tell her to keep pressure on the wound, because there is a lot of blood, and like last time, I don't know the extent of the damage. I get on the phone, dial 911, explain the situation, and am transferred to the ambulence service to whom I explain the situation. They are en route. I get dressed and ready to go/assist or whatever needs to be done. I get the door open and ready. I ask him what happened, he says he doesn't know if he fell, or his sister pushed him, but he hit his head on concrete. A head wound, and with a fall, not good.

    I ask his sister what happened, she tells me they were playing and he fell. He says he can't remember what happened. Okay, he probably knocked himself out briefly, also not good.

    I go out and wave down the ambulence to make sure they don't get lost. And again, who is the bad guy? You guessed it, me again. No one wanted to let me control my scene again, because I must be the evil bad man who hurt someone in the family or some such crap.

    Even more annoying, a local Sheriff's Officer wanders into my house quietly behind me while I am doing my best to make sure my son gets proper care. I get interviewed like a perp, he finds nothing, and leaves. Finally, my son gets care. He goes to the hospital and gets superglued for his gash, and a CAT scan. After two nights of observing him closely at home, he is fine.

    So, the thing that pisses me off imensely in these two scenarios:

    1. I am treated like a criminal for doing the right thing.
    2. Care is delayed to my family members while I am being treated like a criminal.

    Why? Because I am guy.
  2. When you say it is your scene, what does that mean exactly? Perhaps you should place yourself in their shoes if you were to arrive on scene to someone else trying to control the scene. What would you think? How would you react?

  3. Dalton Wayne

    Dalton Wayne Epic mustache Millennium Member

    Apr 5, 1999
    Central Florida
    It's only your scene till the on duty's arrive, I'd have treated you the same way sorry it's just the biz
  4. Brucev


    Jul 19, 2009
    That's the way it is. You are a man. Learn to take such mess like a man. The folks with the flashing lights come with a mindset already in place. You are a suspect until they decide otherwise. Words to the contrary are just words to the contrary... even if offered by the one with the blood, etc. Maybe sometimes warranted. But sometimes... no all the time.
  5. AlexHassin


    Dec 15, 2010
    Oww great one of the, it’s my kid/S.O my scene types. Different EMT run stuff differently. I go of the assumed stupid until proven otherwise. I have always wondered what they say afterwards.
  6. RichardB

    RichardB Silver Member

    Jul 29, 2007
    Work in a emergency room or on an ambulance for a while and you will understand.
  7. glockeglock


    Feb 25, 2007
    I have experienced similar when helping an injured female neighbor when I lived in an apartment building. The medical people seemed more interested in "collecting evidence" of my guilt than in providing medical care to the injured neighbor. She had to tell, the EMTs, then the admitting nurse, then the attending nurse, then the doctor that she had an epileptic seizure and fell all by herself in her own apartment and that I did not assault her, but only provided care for her when she came stumbling/bleeding out of her apartment.

    None of them seemed to believe her and all them stared at me as if I was Satan himself.

    It pissed me off plenty. I walked away every time they started the questioning so there would be no appearance of her being intimidated by me. I wondered what would have happened to me if she simply could not remember what happened. Makes me *almost* want to turn my back on any woman in trouble.

    I understand questioning related to causation for the purposes of providing appropriate care, but medical people should do medical stuff and leave the evidence collection to the police, IMHO.
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  8. Personally, I would have gotten the story from you inside the house. No need in making the patient talk and risk increased bleeding due to the movement of the jaw (other than answering the basic questions to assess mental status).

    I'd probably confirm the story with just her in the back of the rig, but it's not my job to investigate possible DV cases. If she tells me you beat the crap out of her, then I'll relay that to the hospital. I'm not going to hound her to make sure the trip and fall story is accurate.
  9. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    And your answer makes the most sense. Anyone with even a modicum of investigative experience knows that if you want to find answers, you don't interview people together. Further, you would not be delaying medical care. I think that is what made me the most angry, medical care was not being administered while people who are not trained in any law enforcement experience are trying to play detective.

    Now, as for the SO in the situation presented, if he had a concern, he could have conducted his interviews at the hospital. But, then again, he looked like a shiny and just out of the box rookie, so he probably couldn't figure that much out this early in his career.

    My other thought is that these folks were doing these things for their convenience, which brings me down to my chief irritation, a delay in medical care.

    In the case of my son, I had to insist that because it was a head injury a collar should be used along with a stretcher. I am nowhere an EMT, but I figure that is just common sense. In fact, even with two EMT's there, they had me hold his head straight for them.

    I think what it boils down to, is it is pretty rural, there is a pretty good level of poverty and probably a lack of knowledge. This coupled with a high population of substance abuse that leads to more DV situations.

    However, it is still very frustrating.
  10. redneck1861


    Jan 7, 2011
    I understand your frustration, medical help should have been provided before any questioning. Actually it is not the job of the EMT to question you, if they feel that foul play was involved, they should have reported it to local LEO's.

    What is the extent of your medical training? That is the deciding factor on who's scene it is.

    Example. If we as LEO's get dispatched to an vehicle accident with injuries, once EMT's arrive, it is no longer our scene. Until the medic's leave.

    A couple years ago we drive by an accident, we stop and find the driver hurt pretty bad. We call it in to get help. Then a guy in a truck stops in the road an hops out, we were about to grab him when he tells us he is a medic, he grabs his bag and starts giving first aid to the guy until the ambulance arrives.

    We found out that since that was not a criminal investigation, he was in charge until someone with more training than him got there, which is the paramedic that responded. Also that if we would have kept him away from the injured driver, we could be charged
  11. redneck1861


    Jan 7, 2011
    How long ago was the incident involving your son? I would suggest that you either write, or go in to file a formal complaint