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PNP Pistol Trials redux

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by CatsMeow, Oct 16, 2007.

  1. Hi all,

    I was still assigned in Manila when all this went down.

    There were some trials for the selection of the new PNP service pistol; I saw some photos at Ultra Systems of the CZ-75 being put through a torture test. It seemed like the CZ-75 would be the winner; it was even endorsed by Czech President Vaclav Havel. All of a sudden the Beretta M92DS was selected.

    Does anybody have an idea as to what actually happened?
  2. saki1611

    saki1611 BOG's #1611

    Sep 16, 2006
    obviously the beretta won because it bacame the standard issue of the PNP almost 10yrs ago. just last year i heard that PNP was also having a torture test with Police Norinco, i dont know yet what hapened.

  3. I remember some sort of protest from Ultra Systems which quieted down. It was then that you could get one for P18k gunshow price.

    Actually the Beretta M92DS is not a bad selection; I found I could hit with one fairly well (but then I'm an old revolver shot), plus it's ideal for all those klutzes in cops' uniform (won't go off unless the trigger is pulled), plus a positive safety. I remember the Glock got knocked out of contention because the PNP wanted an all-metal pistol, for whatever reason. I was just wondering why it was selected out of the blue when the CZ-75 looked poised to win it.
  4. Allegra


    Mar 16, 2003
    beretta won in exchange for the Philippines putting up a ICBMs in Italy. Or was it because they began hiring more DHs?

    They needed an all metal gun kasi it will be shot little but gagamitin pangpukpok ng ulo a lot
  5. TTPower


    Aug 2, 2006
    i heard this news about what happend to the testing of the norinco police from someone inside FED.... in short chismis to ah! he said that norinco won over armscor in the torture test but since one of the owners of armscor is a relative of the 1st gentleman... supplying the PNP with firearms was awarded to Armscor.

    IMHO, totoo or hindi..i think its just right that armscor gets the project. we should patronize our own products and besides armscor FA have improved and proven themselves

    pero ang tibay daw talaga ng norinco and it passed with flying colors.... they even drop the gun from the 3rd floor of a bldg and ayos pa rin daw. the armscor was a different story. (again kwento lng rin sa akin yan!) but i dont think our PNP are that clumsy to drop their guns from the 3rd floor! hahahahaha
  6. pipo


    Feb 20, 2006
  7. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    almost home
    The Beretta won a 1998 PNP bid-out for its general service handgun,
    and we got shafted big time by Fabrica D’Armi Pietro Beretta S.P.A.,
    which was represented in the Philippines by Armaments Unlimited,Inc.
    thru Mr. Edgar V. Lucas (with offices conveniently inside Camp Aguinaldo,
    across EDSA from HQ PNP).

    Beretta did not deliver the contract quantity of firearms,
    claiming exchange-rate fluctuations had excused it from
    its obligations. I'm pretty sure CZ would have kept its word
    had it won the bid.


    The Armscor scandal linked to above by pipo involves a totally
    different PNP bid/contract, for a SAF/SWAT sidearm, in 2003.
  8. chowchow


    Jan 15, 2007
    Norinco 1911 na nalo? I bet thats true, hindi lang pinalaki sa report bec dameng prejudice sa intsik sa atin. Besides Amrscor is improving well and has good customer service:hugs:
  9. So that explains why the new PNP Chief does not tote one. There were not enough, even for him.:supergrin:

    That also explains why a lot of cops don't have one as well. While the rusty Armscor revolvers have disappeared for the most part, Cebu PNP still carries a mix: Berettas, M1911s (more common), Glocks, plus a few revolvers for the old-timers (with plenty of speedloaders; one could have sworn they were going to a match!:supergrin: ).

    Pero Pasay PNP beats them all, when I was still a student, every Pasay cop I saw toted a S&W M10 heavy barrel .38.:thumbsup:
  10. isuzu


    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    I believe that the torture test was done in the early 90's. I was also surprised why Beretta won. CZ was indeed, poised to win the contract.

    Catsmeow, did Ultra Systems file a protest or a case because it lost the contract?

    A lot of cops had their Berettas converted from DAO to single action in Bacolod; and quite a number of ADs, too. Once you cycled the slide, you can't safely bring the hammer down on a live round because of the bobbed hammer. Some cops received 92Fs in lieu of the 92 DAOs.
  11. There was a protest but I did not hear anything further. This is why I was asking, perhaps our fellow BoGs are in a better position to know.:) But then Ultra Systems is already gone from the top floor of SM Megamall..don't know where they went.

    DAO is indeed hard to shoot unless mastered. I dry-fired my revolver every night until I got to the point that the front sight did not move when the hammer fell; by then my plastic snap-caps had already cracked.:supergrin: I did see some 92Fs; I thought they were privately-owned, like at least one cop I saw who toted a Taurus PT-92, unmistakable because of its frame-mounted safety.
  12. isuzu


    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    Heard that the later issues were Taurus PT92s instead of Berettas. Wondered why the supposed "downgrade." I'm not saying the Taurus pistols are bad; I had one that I had to eventually give to my wife because she was very comfortable shooting it. There's quite a significant price difference between the two, though.

    As for the 1911s, the contract should go to Armscor. However, Armscor should provide a good warranty policy on the contracted pistols. They should also give the higher models instead of the basic ones so that the cop won't spend extra for good sights, beavertail, checkering, etc.

    IMO, Arsmcor should also run special serial numbers on the pistols and stamp a PNP logo on the frame and slide deep enough to prevent them from being tampered. That should discourage some rogue cops to tamper the serial numbers and pawn the firearms.
  13. Hope it won't be a repeat of that Auto-Ordnance incident, that is, the PNP allegedly got some sub-standard AO 1911s.
  14. isuzu


    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    My gunsmith who hails from Danao told me that the AO pistols, prior to being taken over by Kimber had soft metals. There were Air Force chopper pilots who had them, and according to the gunsmith, the first to fail is the hammer and sear. Their pistols went on full auto because of this.
  15. I actually saw an AO of a reserve officer with this problem. When the slide was racked, the hammer followed the slide home; good thing it was unloaded. Sure to make it a machine gun.:supergrin:
  16. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    almost home
    Word is that the Taurus PT92 pistols (all 5,000-odd) are
    acquitting themselves well naman. Taurus offered the lowest bid
    vs. Tanfoglio/Armscor and (--amazingly still entertained--) Beretta
    through its local dist.

    slightly adjusted per-unit cost:
    Taurus : P19,400
    Tanfoglio/Armscor : P26,000
    Beretta : P37,500

    So, malayo talaga ang clear winner ng bid.
    Forjas Taurus delivered on the contract kaagad,
    no funny stuff like Beretta in 98.

    ...and, err, nag-ka 'senior moment' yata kayo, hehehe.
    Auto-Ordnance was taken over by the Moonies (Kahr),
    rather than by Kimber.
    (Kapag ako naman ang naka-limot, sagipin ninyo rin ako, ha?)
  17. nrmcolt

    nrmcolt What?

    Sep 26, 2004
    Raccoon City
    Yep, supposedly the "new AO line of firearms" according to the interweb have improve since the guys at Kahr took over the helm.
  18. pipo


    Feb 20, 2006
    I personally prefer the frame mounted safety of the taurus as compared to the slide mounted safety of beretta.
  19. AFAIK, Taurus PT92 series pistol won the contract to supply the PNP sidearms.
  20. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    almost home
    Only insofar as the 2006 bid-out was concerned, which was furthermore in
    relation to preparations for the ASEAN meet in Cebu.

    This was totally different from the 1998 bid-out won by Beretta,
    and from the 2003 SAF/SWAT bid-out that was apparently doctored (repeatedly) to favor Armscor.