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+p+ in 38...yes ... no....

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by piccopower, May 10, 2012.

  1. piccopower

    piccopower still a noob :(

    138
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    Jun 6, 2010
    Missouri, Greenwood
    Do they make it for the 38?
    Is it worth it?
    Instead of using 357 magnum maybe +p+????
    Anyone?
     
  2. JBnTX

    JBnTX Texas

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    Texas
    I've never heard of .38 special +P+ ammo.

    Personally I'd just get a .357 if I needed that much more power.

    Why take the chance of ruining a perfectly good .38 special.
     


  3. banger

    banger

    1,450
    173
    Nov 8, 2005
    Where evil lives
    Do they make it?

    It was the FIRST caliber that was manufactured in +p and +P+.

    These loads go back to the late 70's/early 80's period, when the overwhelming majority of law enforcement carried revolvers.

    Do a search on "Treasury load".

    As to the suitability to your particular needs...That would depend on the revolver you intend to load them into.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  4. I have about 25 rds of the Winchester .38 +p+ that was given to me in trade. They're stamped 88 on the bottom, so I'm assuming they're made in 1988.

    The gun I rec'd was a 686-3, that I feel should be fine with firing these, just haven't done so yet.
     
  5. piccopower

    piccopower still a noob :(

    138
    0
    Jun 6, 2010
    Missouri, Greenwood
    It would be 357 revolver.....if they don't then magnum would do.
     
  6. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    NE OHIO
    It would be very dependent on the gun. I'd have no problem shooting them in a magnum gun. I'd be hesitant to put them through a vintage airweight.
     
  7. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    CA Central Coast
    A buddy of mine who carried a S&W M60 when he worked with the CHP was required to carry it in his M60 as an off-duty weapon. It was the standard issue CHP ammunition for a while (although different individual field offices sometimes maintained a supply of 125gr .357 Magnum for those officers who could qualify with it).

    Yes, you occasionally heard of it accelerating wear & tear on the steel J-frame .38's of that time (late 70's through the 90's). I'd not shoot it in an Airweight, myself. (Not even in one rated for a steady diet of +P loads.)

    I once fired hundreds of rounds of it through an early production 640, but it was one of the limited number of them that was actually marked for +P+ loads (on the frame, inside the cylinder window). It had more felt recoil than shooting 158gr +P through my Airweight (642-1), and I used up the +P+ loads in the 640 to help acclimate myself to shooting a lot of +P in my then-new Airweight.

    I think I'm down to just a single box of the old 110gr +P+ Winchester Treasury Load (from having access to cases of it some years ago). I'll probably keep it as a souvenir of earlier days.

    We have much better performing .38 ammunition nowadays. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  8. countrygun

    countrygun

    17,069
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    Mar 9, 2012

    If bullet placement is correct,a few fps won't add anything. If the placement isn't correct a few fps won't turn a bad shot into a good one.
     
  9. piccopower

    piccopower still a noob :(

    138
    0
    Jun 6, 2010
    Missouri, Greenwood
    Just asking because of the difference in power,noise, and kick in a 2inch.
     
  10. boone10

    boone10 Glockeologist

    370
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    Aug 7, 2011
    Alabama
    Modern bullets are designed to expand at lower velocities (i.e. Gold Dot 135 +p) and have a proven record on the streets. The older stuff loaded +p+ are topped off with a "less desirable hollow point" and IMHO are just not worth the possible problems in my particular revolvers. I do, however, have a lever-action Marlin .357 that would eat 'em up for sure.
     
  11. countrygun

    countrygun

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    Mar 9, 2012

    Just trying to point out that you quickly reach a point of "diminishing returns" at which the increase in noise and kick increases disproportionately to the increase in useful power. I got my first 2 1/2" .357 in about 1980 and I soon learned that, for me, not matter how hard I trained, my groups were bigger, and my times slower with the .357 ammo. It seemed, again just my opinion, that since I was throwing basically the same bullet (in weight and diameter) slower, bigger groups was not a result I was going to be happy with.
     
  12. bac1023

    bac1023

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    PA
    I never understood the point of +P+ ammo regardless of the caliber.

    If you need more power, step up to another round.
     
  13. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    WA
    The +P+ stuff was usually a story of diminishing returns since they didn't yield the performance commensurate with 24K psi pressures.

    Fed and Win loaded a 147gr +P+, basically a 9mm jhp bullet in a .38sp case. The Win version chrono'd mid 900fps in a 2" ported snubby (Taurus 85TT), the same in a 3" model 36, 975fps in a 2.5" model 242 L frame snubby and 1050fps in my 4" model 15.
    The Fed 147gr +P+ Hydrashok was usually about 50fps slower than the Win version.

    Corbon loaded a truly hot +P+ 115gr .38sp, also used a 9mm jhp bullet. This one was said to be about 26K psi, chrono'd 1200fps in J frame snubbies, over 1400fps in a 4" K frame. Fast.

    The Treasury Load +P+ 110gr was quoted for having similar numbers as the Corbon, but chrono work I've seen is usually 1100fps in snubbies, 1300 in 4" guns. It worked decent from whats been written of it, but a shallow penetrator usually by FBI standards.

    Federal also had a +P+ 125gr jhp LE only, chrono'd 1050-1100fps in snubbies.

    With today's powders (like Power Pistol) and better loads like Buffalo Bore, you don't need +P+ anymore to get the same performance, though I still have some of the Win +P+ 147gr laying around somewhere.
     
  14. hotpig

    hotpig IAFF Local 4766 CLM

    I sell a lot of the 110gr +P+ ammo. The various +P rounds sell better because more guns can use them and they are not as stout.
     
  15. 257 roberts

    257 roberts

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    Mar 18, 2012
    we carried Winchester Silver Tips 110gr +P+ in S&W 10 back in the early 80's....it worked!!!
     
  16. glockdoc21

    glockdoc21

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    May 19, 2007
    For me it turned a pistol that was difficult to make hits with (smith 642) into one that was almost impossible to make hits with. YMMV
     
  17. Berto

    Berto woo woo

    24,175
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    Sep 15, 2003
    WA
    It's the Indian.:supergrin:
     
  18. bac1023

    bac1023

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    PA
    :animlol:
     
  19. ^ this is my answer heck I dont always use P+ at all I often just have the old FBI load standard pressure(158 grain LSWCHP). Right now im running some 135 grain P+ I think though but no id not use +p+ even if I could.
     
  20. ^ also agree 100% step up to .357 magnum at that point