close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Talk

Why should YOU join our Glock forum?

  • Converse with other Glock Enthusiasts
  • Learn about the latest hunting products
  • Becoming a member is FREE and EASY

If you consider yourself a beginner or an avid shooter, the Glock Talk community is your place to discuss self defense, concealed carry, reloading, target shooting, and all things Glock.

Overpenetration?

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by Scatch Maroo, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. Then that was a helluva shot with a FACTORY XTP! McNett has said that he recommends his HOT XTPs on bears up to 400 pounds. With a G20. Maybe he's a bit on the conservative side. Ya think?
     
  2. Tazz10m

    Tazz10m Mod Aerator Moderator Millennium Member

    Way to revive a thread, AK_Stick!

    Where'd ya hit 'em, what angle, how thick was he, boar or sow, and did you hit any bones?

    Oh, and how far did he go???

    Inquiring minds want to know!

    A G29, no less! Ya got ta love it!

    Pictures????
     


  3. QUOTE: "A G29, no less! Ya got ta love it!"

    Yeah, I saw that too. THAT was one helluva shot! But I believe I would have wanted a long gun for backup somewhere in the equation, just in case.....
     
  4. Tazz10m

    Tazz10m Mod Aerator Moderator Millennium Member

    Awww... com'on Chainsaw! Ya just know that would take all the fun out of it! ;f
     
  5. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    17,397
    1,120
    Jan 20, 2004
    Alaska, again (for now)
    it was a lucky shot, between two ribs into the heart and lungs and through the other side without hitting any bones. Would I count on it again? hell no, would I use a XTP on bear again? probably but only if I couldn't get some DT, it was rather different being only a few yards from a large black bear, even with my 375 ICL laying across my lap with 5 rounds of 300 grn persuasion
     
  6. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    17,397
    1,120
    Jan 20, 2004
    Alaska, again (for now)
    I'll try to find the story, I posted it here back right after I took him, but that was in june...
     
  7. QUOTE: "it was a lucky shot, between two ribs into the heart and lungs and through the other side without hitting any bones"

    I wondered about that. But I still say it was a helluva shot. And with a G29 to boot! We'll probably be talking about that one for a while.

    Next time we hear someone try to claim that a G29 performs like a .40, I now have the perfect answer!
     
  8. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    17,397
    1,120
    Jan 20, 2004
    Alaska, again (for now)
    I had my 375 ICL very close, and my buddy backing me up with a 338 and 44 just incase

    here are some pictures, sorry they arn't very good, it was getting dark and we had two bears to skin. (other bear was hit by the 375 with a finisher put in him from the 10mm)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Toomas

    Toomas GMG 5"54calMk42

    27
    0
    Feb 4, 2005
    San Jose CA
    Considering these facts before accepting through-n-throughs:
    -Virtually all handgun rounds vary in diameter only approx one quarter of an inch (.22 vs .50 is only .28 inches).
    -Expansion of these rounds upon impact then makes the "hole" vary up to another quarter to half of an inch.
    -The above numbers are much smaller when considering the fact that most of us are using something between a 9mm and a .45 cal.
    -Most of you brag about your preferred hot loads. Hot loads add velocity and torque. Think about WHY you are getting excited about these hot loads. It's because they have more power. Power for what?
    -Power to penetrate, power to cause impact stress, power to knock down, power to cause damage when penetrating soft tissues.
    -What good is all that power when the bullet passes through your fleshy target?!!??!

    OK, maybe you were 1/16" closer to a major blood vessel because of expansion or because you simply have a big bore. Maybe your full penetration cut throgh an extra 2" of ribs and meat, but if that's the case then you've already went beyond the vitals. Human torsos front to back are average less than a foot thick, and most game animals are about 2 feet thick. If yuo pass through these then consider how much damage you've caused with your wound cavities, and think about all of the power you've wasted. Keep the power in your target for best results in maximizing the wound cavities. A hole doesn't always keep your game in place.
     
  10. Over penetration for someone in a personal defense scenario, particularly with a handgun, is a non-issue. For organizations sending many rounds down range by people of variable experience and skill attempting to protect the public more than themselves, they have some room for concern.

    It's my opinion that an under-penetrating round is more likely to cause loss of life do to an inability to rapidly stop a hostile target than even missed rounds having the unlikely result of striking an unintended target.

    Look at the Hollywood shootout. 1000+ rounds of 7.62x39 FMJ expended by the bad guys and they only managed to hit people they were targeting. No reports of stray rounds hitting anyone. Even those who were hit, in one case 9 times, were able to be saved with fairly prompt medical attention. The only loss of life in that even were the 2 criminals.

    Too me nearly any handgun round is going to be a compromise. I'll carry the biggest round I can carry and control. For me that usually works out to 10mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP but I wouldn't feel bad about toting a 454 Casull or even a 500 S&W if the circumstances warranted it. But if I'm expecting trouble, I'll take .308 or 12 gauge slugs thank you. :)

    My Dad's home defense pairing is a 44 Mag Blackhawk for checking noises and a 458 Win Mag if he's holed up waiting for the Police.

    Good information to know:
    http://www.firearmstactical.com

    http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html
     
  11. PaleGreenHorse

    PaleGreenHorse 10mm

    562
    0
    Dec 1, 2004
    Las Vegas
    I thought lighting people on fire was against the geneva convention??? Well there goes your .454 casull idea, lol;f
     
  12. hollow10mm

    hollow10mm cold,dead,hands

    75
    0
    Jun 30, 2004
    Off The Grid
  13. porterfield

    porterfield

    103
    0
    Apr 10, 2004
    Colorado
    I have read BlkSnow's overpenetration points on a different forum and all I have to say is--I couldn't agree more!
    Great post.
     
  14. DonD

    DonD

    3,826
    711
    Dec 21, 2001
    Central TX
    I like the post, the only comment I'd have is that a max loaded .500 Mag will seriously outperform a .308 in anything but armor penetration and trajectory. My .500 Mag handloads have more energy and far more penetration and cross section. Don ;f ;f
     
  15. xd>glock2me

    xd>glock2me Republican

    199
    0
    Jan 5, 2005
    South

    ;P ;P ;P - should work good if a bear is in their also!

    The 500 is such a big gun! I held a 4" the other day and it was just overwhelming!
     
  16. My Dad has spotted a Couger just behind their back yard fence mosying tward the nearby farm. He has some copper solids for disabling engines of escaping criminals as well. He's all sighted in for the road at the top of the hill.

    Because laws don't stop criminals. People do.
     
  17. senseijohn

    senseijohn

    31
    0
    May 25, 2005
    Maine
    Hi everyone. The overpenetration being discussed appears to be aimed (no pun) at human bad guys. My foremost thought in carrying the 10mm is canine. I live in Maine where it has become/is COOL to own a pit-bull terrier or Rottweiller. My youngest brother was attacked in front of me by a "TRAINED" dog. Hence, my sights (no pun) are set on Relative Firepower and absolutely stopping a aggressive threat from a dog. Anyone new to maine should be prepared for the reality of neighborhood gangs that will "send" a attack dog upon you or those you love. The idea is to attack with impunity. They do not register nor admit to owning a dog after the attack. Many such attacks take place, check the news. Lest we forget, what happens to the bullets that miss the bad guy. I understand that frangibles do in fact work on innocents. "you don't win a fight, you survive it."
     
  18. Darkangel1846

    Darkangel1846

    2,346
    92
    Jul 19, 2004
    Oregon
    Well I did do some research on over penitration. I found it to be somewhat mythical. You find traces of suspected overpenatration with innocent bystanders. But I think mostly its missed shots.
    Although I find many a person talking about overpenatration, and what might happen, I can't seem to find any specific documented incidence where it did happened. Now I can find several references where bystanders were hit by wild (missed shots) shots fired by both police, criminals, and private citizens. Can't seem to find any documentation on through and through shots killing anyone else........except in theory or in movies.
    My Glock 20 has become my most favoret handgun. For target I practice with standard rounds that are about 1000 fps. For CCW I pack the Double Tap 155 gr HPs, at close to 1500 fps. In the back woods I pack the 200 grain Penatrating HPs just incase Mr. Smoky Bear decides he wants to talk to me.
    Next to the .44 mag, this is the most versital handgun on the Market.
    Next The 6 inch compensated barrel.
    Over Penatration is a myth started by some High ranking LEO who didn't want to take some heat for having to powerful a ammo.
    DA
     
  19. 147 Grain

    147 Grain

    194
    0
    Jan 21, 2005
    Before worrying about overpenetration, we need to be more concerned with hitting the target.

    We always here talk about a bullet going through somebody, but don't think twice about all the misses than put many more people at risk than a spent bullet exiting the BG.