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Opinion on Nosler JHPs for SD???

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by alpha6164, Aug 2, 2010.


  1. alpha6164

    alpha6164
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    alpha6164

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    I have decided to start reloading after my disappointing results with my DT ammo chrono this past week. I have been reading the past three days and tried to get as much info as possible. It appears that Gold dots seem difficult to find, XTPs are available but seem to be geared more towards hunting with deeper penetration vs. expansion.

    Any opinions on terminal performance of the Nosler JHPs in the 150/180gr? How would you think the Nosler compares to the Gold Dots or XTPs in similar weights with same velocities? The prices on the Nosler seem to be very reasonable. Am i correct to assume that for SD purposes maybe the "lighter" XTPs driven faster will expand better than the heavier ones? Any info on 180gr XTPs expansion @1250-1300ft/sec? All inputs appreciated.
     

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  2. jeffreybehr

    jeffreybehr
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    GAPist #1944

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    I think the medium to heavy Nosler .400s are built about the same as the 135, which is too lightly for PD. I tested a bunch of .40-cal. bullets in my .40S&W...
    [​IMG]
    ...and the Nosler came apart, as did the Golden Saber 165s.

    If your life depends on it, use XTPs or Gold Dots.

    For a practice bullet that can be driven as fast as the real thing, I use Montana Gold's JHPs. https://secure3.mooseweb.com/montanagoldbullet.com/pricelist.tpl
     

  3. alpha6164

    alpha6164
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    alpha6164

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    Thanks for the reply. Do you think the XTP 155s will be better at 1350ft/sec vs. XTP 180 at 1300ft/sec as far as expansion and self defense?
     
  4. jeffreybehr

    jeffreybehr
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    I have no good idea. Personally, I prefer the lighter-to-medium-weight bullets in just about everything, for no good reason. But I expect the 180g. XTP at 10mm velocities would be an excellent PD load.

    And I think you're going to have to load quite hot to get 1300FPS with a 180, unless you have a carbine-length barrel. For instance, Speer's max velocity with 155s is 1320, while with 180s it's only 1214 other than with BlueDot, which has a HUGE muzzleflash (MF) based on others' reports, so I wouldn't use it. Hodgdon lists 6 155g. loads with velocities over 1300 but only 2 180g. loads over 1200FPS, one of which is with Longshot, which I wouldn't use because it has medium-high MF. Other than a BlueDot load, Lyman lists 4 155g. loads over 1300 while only 2 of their 180g. loads exceed 1200FPS.

    So maybe 1350 and 1225 might be more-reasonable velocities to be discussing.
     
  5. MakeMineA10mm

    MakeMineA10mm
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    Save yourself a lot of time and trouble. For SD loads for the 10mm (or 40S&W for that matter, but I don't load for that caliber), use 165gr Gold Dots. They expand at very low velocity, but don't come apart at high velocity. They're about the only bullet that gives such a wide/useful range of velocities it will work well in. I love a good bullet design debate, but Gold Dots just work. XTPs tend to expand later in their penetration track, which makes them good hunting bullets, but not so great at SD. They'll work (as any good JHP will), but I think the GD is better.
     
  6. Taterhead

    Taterhead
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    Counting Beans

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    Good to see you back MMA10. Haven't noticed you around much lately.

    I agree with your comments and this is the bullet that I have currently loaded for SD purposes.
     
  7. MakeMineA10mm

    MakeMineA10mm
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    Hey Tater, and thanks for the kind comments. I'm always checking this place out, but sometimes a week or two goes by, and sometimes really long periods go by when I just read and don't say anything... :supergrin:
     
  8. HiredGun77

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    I would not use the Noslers for SD. I also had them fall apart losing their jackets on the surface of different mediums and very shallow penetration. The key to good reliable stopping power is maximum tissue destruction possible. Deep penetration couple with supersonic speed makes for devestating wounds that are most effective fight stoppers. In the 40S&W I recomment the 155 grain XTP at 1250+ and 180XTPs in the 10mm preferably over 1300fps. The XTP will expand at slower speeds but they shine when you speed them up.
     
  9. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm
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    They are very inconsistent, but can lead to some novelty expanded bullets...


    I have been using the 135g Nosler JHP at around 1350fps. Most fragment but every once in a while something special happens...

    One hit my stack of phone books and "Smeared" to almost two inches.

    For SD I would not trust them with my life! But they are fun.

    I would go with 175g Stivertips, 165/180g Gold Dots, or 155/180g XTPs
     
  10. MalumProhibitum

    MalumProhibitum
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    Will somebody please explain to me why I want a different type of bullet to take down a 150 pound four legged white tail versus taking down a 150 pound two legged attacker? In both cases, don't I want to put the target on the ground as quickly as possible?
    :dunno:
     
  11. Kegs

    Kegs
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    This is the reason I say get the maximum load you can fire effectively.

    The correct weapon for self defense is a 12 gauge shotgun.

    If you can't carry that around everywhere (and lets get real, you're not going to conceal that under a T-shirt) then get the next best thing: A big bore compact pistol with a lot big, bad bullets that you can keep on target at a moment's notice.
     
    #11 Kegs, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  12. MakeMineA10mm

    MakeMineA10mm
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    Sure, I'll explain it. It's really a simple matter of two things:

    1. Body structure differences, and
    2. Mentality differences.

    As far as body structure goes, with the exception of the classic, broadside, through the ribs shot on a deer (no angle requiring engaging the shoulders or deeper part of the animal), a typical human target does not present itself like a typical hunting target. Size, thickness and hardness of the bones are very, very similar (which I can speak to authoritatively being a Coroner and examining both animal and human sets of bones and fresh remains extensively). However, the human threat target is frequently oriented directly at you with the thinnest part of the chest exposed. Assuming you're a reasonably good shot and put your rounds in the center of mass, you're going to hit no bones or very light bones - at worst the sternum. In addition, the human's "vital organs" are not far from the surface and rapid expansion is paramount to disrupt as much tissue as possible. It doesn't take a lot to penetrate a human torso through-and-through with a single-bullet firearm. (Shotgun with anything less than buckshot is a different story.)

    The deer on the other hand is a target of hunting, and therefore is not typically advancing at us, so we generally have a lot of confidence in what angle our shot will be. Sometimes the uncooperative quary walks towards us (which is not as clear a shot as with a human) or, more likely, is quartering towards or away from us. Also, a lot of hunters fire at their prey from a tree or other elevated stand, resulting in a shot that may run into shoulder or spine bones. These are all more difficult penetration issues for a hunter, and hunting ethics generally requires a bullet that both expands and penetrates. Now, if you're the kind of hunter who can pass up all but the classic broadside presentation, I'll agree that the same ammo used for a human will work well for a deer. However, I'd also recommend you back up that first round in the chamber with rounds in the magazine which penetrate well, because no shots (if follow-up shots are required - rare, but possible) after that first one are going to be at a standing-still broadside target...

    Now, that was long-winded, and that was on the easier-to-describe point of my two... :phew:

    As far as the mentality thing goes, lets just say that deer ALWAYS act like animals and unless the shot is a brilliantly lucky one, they always depart the area post-haste, even with a good shot through their vitals. That's because, as animals, they ALWAYS respond with the classic flight or fight response. They don't fake themselves out, which humans sometimes do. Therefore, having a tougher bullet that penetrates through-and-through also leads to faster blood loss and an easier blood trail to follow. (Easier being a relative term. It still isn't easy to follow, but a through-and-through hit typically bleeds more and provides a better blood trail than that of a bullet that stayed within the animal.) Therefore a stronger-constructed bullet is also better for hunters, than in self-defense.

    I used to subscribe to the theory that a through-and-through hit was better on humans too, but I've learned that internal bleeding is just as good as external, and I'm not too worried about trailing up my assaulter after an attack... ;)
     
  13. nikerret

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    Mr. Awesome

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    Heck of a post.


    Thanks for posting the pics of the fired rounds.

    Yes, I realize this is an old thread.
     
  14. damnyankee20

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    Its not about bullet size, its about shot placement. There's nothing wrong with using 150gr Noslers in 10mm. Its what I reload with. :supergrin:
     
  15. wkoukios

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    I could not find Gold Dots before the shortages we find today. I have substituted XTP in place. I prefer 180gr for 10mm SD. 1250-1300 fps makes them a formidable power level. If I'm carrying a 10mm I am loading it with what its capable of.
     
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