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One-Shot Drops Surviving the Myth

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by RMTactical, Jun 9, 2005.

  1. B_Easy

    B_Easy

    89
    0
    Oct 17, 2005
    I've yet to see what's different about it.

    The animal tests I've seen show that it's regular old high velocity low weight ammo.

    By the way, the #'s listed on the website are FALSE

    The penetration depths reflect the round in gel, where it doesn't fragment, while the cavity diameters reflect the round in animal tests, where it DOES fragment, but doesn't penetrate due to little retained mass.

    In other words, they're tying together two separate tests to make their ammo seem worthwhile.

    Of course it looks like it works, the wounds are massive in diameter, but the depth of them is less than impressive.
     
  2. mitchshrader

    mitchshrader Deceased

    8,672
    2
    Jun 14, 2005
    Tulsa
    but i guess as careful as i can.

    my personal choice is medium power, low recoil, and a long barrel.

    in other words, something that shoots straight. repeatedly.

    and 'shoot it dry' ..

    and 'CNS if convenient' ..

    better ideas welcomed.
     


  3. MOHAA Player

    MOHAA Player Guest

    ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z
     
  4. PSU_G34

    PSU_G34 London Calling

    156
    0
    Feb 5, 2004
    ID
    Think of the "knock-down" effect as the work done on the target by the bullet instead of the instantaneous force (delta function, for which the integral over dt is zero)applied to the target.

    P.S. Mythbusters is cool:cool:
     
  5. Pr1nc3_Prince

    Pr1nc3_Prince

    28
    0
    Feb 4, 2006
    I know of someone who died from a "lucky" shot.

    it was a .38 FMJ that hit his chest, then the spinal chord, and bounced back to pierce the heart.

    he dropped dead right there and then.

    personally, i'd rather shoot the guy until he's dead but in the case of multiple assailants and you find yourself with limited ammo, that may not apply.

    Imho, i'd rather intimidate the rest by shooting the nearest guy. if that fails it'll be my day in hell.
     
  6. I think anyway who goes into a life or death struggle with only a pistol would be wise to keep this in mind!

    Sure you may drop 'em with one shot, or you may empty a whole mag into them and still get killed. It's always a crap shoot and sometimes the dice come up snake-eyes.
     
  7. Bravo-Four

    Bravo-Four 11B3PB4

    279
    0
    Oct 20, 2005
    Henderson
    Dont worry, as soon as glock figures out how to make its recoiless .308 pistol we will finally be saved.
     
  8. Pr1nc3_Prince

    Pr1nc3_Prince

    28
    0
    Feb 4, 2006
    i doubt it.

    your problem would be over-penetration and legislation, which i beleive is a bigger problem than handguns.

    i'd prefer the recoil-less handgun using SHELLS!

    ;a ;a ;a ;a
     
  9. dport

    dport

    651
    0
    Jan 26, 2000
    Landlocked
    Yep it's a unit of measurement that measures which unit is so narrow as to be unuseable except for measuring things you already know the outcome of and the certain circumstances surrounding it.

    It's like saying every time I play checkers on even numbered days against the cat where I'm the "red" checkers I win 87% of the time.

    It has no utility except in describing those certain circumstances.
     
  10. dport

    dport

    651
    0
    Jan 26, 2000
    Landlocked
    No handgun round has enough momentum to knock down a human being. Unless they're off balance. Hell, a 12ga slug doesn't have enough momentum even if all the "energy is expended into the target."

    Try again.
     
  11. dport

    dport

    651
    0
    Jan 26, 2000
    Landlocked
    It wasn't 9mm ball. It was a 9mm Silvertip that didn't penetrate 12 inches and reach the heart. Penetration, not wound channel diameter, was the key to that failure.
     
  12. mitchshrader

    mitchshrader Deceased

    8,672
    2
    Jun 14, 2005
    Tulsa
    high school student to do it for us.

    the energy at the muzzle = the energy at the target + the energy lost to friction between the muzzle and the target.. and as it doesn't knock YOU over, there ought to be a clue it won't necessarily knock them over either.

    now, knockdown power. well, a double twelve has that, i got knocked down firing one both barrels once. big bruise, knocked me on my butt.

    so, i'd figure a double twelve has knockdown power at the other end too. that's about 4000 lbs muzzle energy, thereabouts.

    that's about like a 30.06 and a bit.. say, a .338 maybe.

    that's knockdown power.
     
  13. I think what most people are mistakenly calling "knock-down-power" is actually the reflexive action of pulling away from extreme pain. Just as your body pulls away from a hot stove when it's burned, it lunges away from the pain of bullet tearing into it.

    This would also explain why someone intoxicated or pumped up on adrenalin doesn't react as violently to being shot. They simply aren't feeling any pain.
     
  14. Tito

    Tito

    455
    0
    Jun 3, 2003
    Michigan
    My Glock 20 and 29 don't recoil bad at all.
     
  15. hawk

    hawk Millennium Member

    81
    0
    May 16, 1999
    On a telephone pole
    Too late dport, glug (aka: gunkid) got banned 3 months ago shortly after he re-registered. ;f
     
  16. Amen, Mitch, amen, preach it brother!

    Handgun ammo energy is too small to be a factor!
     
  17. dport

    dport

    651
    0
    Jan 26, 2000
    Landlocked
    I missed a Gunkid sighting. I always miss the fun.:(










    ;)
     
  18. Irondog

    Irondog

    46
    0
    Feb 18, 2006
    NE Wisconsin
    And they always will. The movie industry has injured and killed more people with other misconceptions..."One shot, and he flew through the air." UH HUH We carry handguns because they are portable, not because they are powerful.

    The attempt to use the one shot stop as a unit of measure is STATISTICAL analysis. Humans are not math problems, that's why they win medals for gallantry, heroism, or ignoring their own extreme peril in combat. Turn that around and use that energy in a felonious way....hmmmmmm.
    People do the unexpected most of the time, that includes when you are trying to stop their behavior with a gun.
     
  19. Bits&Bytes

    Bits&Bytes

    9
    0
    Dec 2, 2005
    You know.. food for thought...

    David killed Goliath with a single stone and a sling shot.

    (not sure what caliber the stone was though...)

    B&B
     
  20. Here's an interesting story from Massad Ayoob.


    More than 10 years ago, my friend Mark Seiden called me in on a murder case in Miami that Janet Reno, then State’s Attorney for the county in question, had ordered prosecuted. A woman named Mary Hopkin had killed her common law husband, a man named James Yarolem.

    James was in his forties. Mary was 63. Her life had been hard, and when she found a younger man who convinced her he loved her, she took him into her home. This did not turn out to be a wise decision.

    Mary worked. Jim didn’t. He drank and smoked up all the money she brought in. He abused her, with the classic escalation. First, verbal derisiveness. Then the shove with the palm. Then the slap of the open hand. Then the blow of the closed fist. The time came when she confronted him and said, “Jim, you drink all my beer, and you smoke all my cigarettes, and you won’t get a job, and … I think it’s time you left.” Even then, being in the classic denial pattern of a battered significant other, she couldn’t bring herself to say, “Oh, and by the way, you beat the crap out of me whenever you feel like it.”

    She didn’t need to say it. Jim didn’t handle her declaration well. He began to beat her up with more vigor than before. She went to call the police, and Jim ripped the telephone out of the wall, wrapped the phone cord around her neck, and strangled her unconscious. He left her for dead and went off to the nearest bar. When Mary awoke, she crawled—she couldn’t walk on her arthritic and aging legs, she crawled—to the nearest trailer to hers and when she got there blurted, “Call the police.”

    The cops arrived. When Jim came back Metro-Dade officers were there. They arrested him. When they dragged him away, the cops testified later, he was screaming “Mary, you f---in’ *****, I’ll kill you for this!”

    Very soon thereafter, he was out on bail and he came to make good his threat. By now, Mary was in terror of him, and had borrowed from her son the cheapest revolver available, an RG .22. The RG is the gun that Handgun Control Inc. is trying to talk about when they rail on about “Saturday Night Specials.” If you left it on a hot stove it might melt.

    Jim pounded on the door like the big bad wolf. “Mary, let me in!” “Jim,” she answered, “I know what you’re going to do! I have a gun! I won’t let you kill me! Go away! Don’t make me shoot you!”

    He didn’t listen. He smashed the door off its hinges and came at her, and she fired three shots. All three .22 bullets hit him. He turned and ran, got about 20 feet, and collapsed and died. To make a long story short, she was charged with murder.

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/ayoob62.html


    The officer in the original post couldn't stop the BG with his service caliber weapon, but a little old lady with a .22 did drop the BG. It just goes to show there's no real rhyme or reason to most shooting incidents.