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Old Testament: Love it or leave it?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Walt_NC, Jul 3, 2012.


  1. Walt_NC

    Walt_NC
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    Christians, help me out. I have found that many of the Christians that I meet hold widely varying positions on the validity of the Old Testament. So what's the deal. Is it or is it not the word of God? Is it any more or less valid than the New Testament?
     

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  2. Colubrid

    Colubrid
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    Yes the OT is the word of God and it all points to Jesus.
     

  3. Droid noob

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    It's just as important as the new, as it shows all His prophecies coming true.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
     
  4. BMyers

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    Just as important as the NT

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  5. mj9mm

    mj9mm
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    How could you take Jesus at His word without the Old Testament:dunno:
     
  6. Woofie

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    It all still applies, except the bad stuff.
     
  7. G23Gen4TX

    G23Gen4TX
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    How is that?
     
  8. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother
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    Not Enough Gun

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    How do you get from the genocidal tribal war god of the OT to the pacifist god of the NT?
     
  9. Droid noob

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    Look it up. There are 200ish prophecies Jesus fulfilled.

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  10. Brucev

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    I consider that the OT and NT together comprise the Bible. Neither is complete without the other. I do not subscribe to a dictation theory of inspiration. I understand that there is in the OT, as there is in the NT, material that pertains to a particular place/time as well as material that is of eternal significance. I read the OT in the light of Christ. Where there is a conflict, I consider that Jesus is the final and last word of God on the matter and act accordingly. In fact, I'd be willing to say that if everyone were a "red letter" Christian, the supposed concerns expressed and other red herrings occasionally noted by some would be of not real consequence.
     
  11. muscogee

    muscogee
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    Such as? Can you name and justify one?
     
  12. Droid noob

    Droid noob
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    <sup id="en-HCSB-18713">1</sup> Who has believed what we have heard?<sup>[a]</sup>
    And who has the arm of the LORD<sup>(A)</sup> been revealed to?<sup>(B)</sup>
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18714">2</sup> He grew up before Him like a young plant<sup>(C)</sup>
    and like a root out of dry ground.
    He didn’t have an impressive form
    or majesty that we should look at Him,
    no appearance that we should desire Him.<sup>(D)</sup>
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18715">3</sup> He was despised and rejected by men,<sup>(E)</sup>
    a man of suffering who knew what sickness was.<sup>(F)</sup>
    He was like someone people turned away from;<sup>[b]</sup>
    He was despised, and we didn’t value Him.


    <sup id="en-HCSB-18716">4</sup> Yet He Himself bore our sicknesses,
    and He carried our pains;<sup>(G)</sup>
    but we in turn regarded Him stricken,
    struck down by God,<sup>(H)</sup> and afflicted.
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18717">5</sup> But He was pierced because of our transgressions,<sup>(I)</sup>
    crushed because of our iniquities;<sup>(J)</sup>
    punishment<sup>(K)</sup> for our peace was on Him,
    and we are healed by His wounds.<sup>(L)</sup>
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18718">6</sup> We all went astray like sheep;<sup>(M)</sup>
    we all have turned to our own way;
    and the LORD has punished Him
    for<sup>[c]</sup> the iniquity<sup>(N)</sup> of us all.<sup>(O)</sup>

    <sup id="en-HCSB-18719">7</sup> He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet He did not open His mouth.
    Like a lamb led to the slaughter
    and like a sheep silent before her shearers,
    He did not open His mouth.<sup>(P)</sup>
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18720">8</sup> He was taken away because of oppression and judgment;
    and who considered His fate?<sup>[d]</sup>
    For He was cut off from the land of the living;
    He was struck because of my people’s rebellion.
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18721">9</sup> They<sup>[e]</sup> made His grave with the wicked
    and with a rich man at His death,<sup>(Q)</sup>
    although He had done no violence
    and had not spoken deceitfully.<sup>(R)</sup>
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18722">10</sup> Yet the LORD was pleased<sup>(S)</sup> to crush Him severely.<sup>[f]</sup><sup>(T)</sup>
    When<sup>[g]</sup> You make Him a restitution offering,<sup>(U)</sup>
    He will see His seed, He will prolong His days,
    and by His hand, the LORD’s pleasure will be accomplished.<sup>(V)</sup>
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18723">11</sup> He will see it<sup>[h]</sup> out of His anguish,
    and He will be satisfied with His knowledge.
    My righteous<sup>(W)</sup> Servant<sup>(X)</sup> will justify many,<sup>(Y)</sup>
    and He will carry their iniquities.
    <sup id="en-HCSB-18724">12</sup> Therefore I will give Him<sup>[i]</sup> the many as a portion,
    and He will receive<sup>[j]</sup> the mighty as spoil,
    because He submitted Himself to death,<sup>(Z)</sup>
    and was counted among the rebels;<sup>(AA)</sup>
    yet He bore the sin of many<sup>(AB)</sup>
    and interceded for the rebels.<sup>(AC)</sup>

    Who does this sound like? This is certainly one pretty specific prophecy that was fulfilled and not denied by even the jews. Josephus(jewish historian captured by the romans) even recorded it. I have a bunch more sitting in front of me. You asked for one. It's justified by outside sources that gain nothing for recording it. I too didn't believe in Jesus or God at one point and studied it from a skeptic pov. The evidence is just to compelling to ignore if one gives it an honest look at some point. I consider myself lucky, in that, I wasn't raised to "just believe". I'm the type to ask the hard questions. Not to mention, we are called to "test all things" in the bible and to give a defense to our faith.
     
  13. Brucev

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    If you have a serious interest, you can find not only those O.T. passages (usually messanic in nature) that refer/point to Jesus as well as how many of those O.T. passages are lived out/full-filled by Jesus in the N.T. era. There are numerous multiple online sources available. Many study Bibles will have list of such O.T. passages along with the corresponding N.T. references. If you only want to debate, wait for someone to provide you the information. If you want to know the answer to your question, consult one of the sources at your convenience.
     
  14. Vic Hays

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    This describes the Jesus of the New Testament. This is the Jesus that we all need. This is just not the Jesus that most people want.

    The New Testament is the Old Testament explained.

    I Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
    10:7 Neither be you idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
    10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
    10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
    10:10 Neither murmur you, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
    10:11 Now all these things happened to them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the world are come.
     
    #14 Vic Hays, Jul 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
  15. SPIN2010

    SPIN2010
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    Searching ...

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    Plainly, it sets the stage for the arrival of Christ.

    If you reject any part of the Bible why would you accept any of it? :dunno:
     
  16. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk
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    Isaiah 53:4-9

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    True, and the New Testament writers, including Christ were constantly referring to the Old. It is what they had and the basis of the New.

    Also, has anyone tried to build a two story house without the first floor?
     
  17. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays
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    The Old Testament and the New Testament are two witnesses.

    Revelation 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days, clothed in sackcloth.
    11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
    11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceeds out of their mouth, and devours their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
     
  18. FCoulter

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  19. muscogee

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    Yes, that points to a Messiah but is says nothing about Jesus being the Messiah. As far as I know, there is nothing in the Old Testament that points to Jesus as the Messiah. To get there you have to start with the assumption and work backwards. That's what the New Testament does. If you don't believe me, ask the Jews.

    Messianic thinking is common in cultures that seem themselves being destroyed by outside forces and realize there is nothing they can do about it. The current government of Iran believes its is preparing the way the Messiah.
     
  20. muscogee

    muscogee
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