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OK. I may convert...

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by esminbritt, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. esminbritt

    esminbritt Elias

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    Apr 24, 2011
    from 147 to 124. I currently carry Fed. HST LE 147 +p. I practice with Fed American Eagle 147. I think that the 147 HST +p is a real solid load, but I am tempted to switch to the Speer 124 +p bonded GD. The Energy is better by about 100 ft lbs. And the velocity is quite a bit faster too. I really like the numbers on the Speer 124 +p+, but I have heard that my G17 wont appreciate that over time. However, I don't shoot my carry ammo often anyways. I shoot the same weight practice ammo to match the weight of what I carry. I ordered 500 rounds of the 147 HST 2 years ago and I still have 7 boxes left. Maybe the Speer +p+ would be OK as carry-only ammo. What do y'all think.
     
  2. 9mm +p+

    9mm +p+

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    I have no love for any 147 load, a 124 +p/+p+ will not hurt your 17. Glocks were designed around NATO pressure 9mm which is higher than +p+, I carry only +p+ loads in my 9's and have had zero issues.
     


  3. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    The 124+p GD is a fine round. This was our duty load when we issued 9mm and it is still what I carry in my off-duty G19 (or the 124 PDX1). Having said that, I would feel just fine with the 147 you mentioned. 100 fpe isn't anything the the BG is going to notice so I wouldn't make that a determining factor. Neither is the velocity. As long as the round has enough velocity to exit the barrel, reach the target and function as designed anything in excess is just going to affect accurate, fast follow up shots. And accurate, fast follow up shots are more important that a little extra velocity and/or energy.

    My sig line goes into more detail. :wavey:
     
  4. Kentguy

    Kentguy

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    Kent, OH
    esminbritt,

    As Dave pointed out;

    Deputydave..."fast follow up shots are more important that a little extra velocity and/or energy."

    I agree this is why I only use the 124g bullet for the 9mm. More than enough to "get the job done", accurate and reacquiring your target is very fast.

    I don't use +P type rounds in my EDC gun, I also find that unnecessary - other do, so whatever your choice you have the right idea here; "I shoot the same weight practice ammo to match the weight of what I carry."

    Shoot up what you have and switch to 124g whatever you wish to shoot. That would be my thoughts.

    Good luck.
     
  5. Glock19Fan

    Glock19Fan Cool Guy

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    Tennessee
    I bought a case of Speer 124 +P Gold Dots (500 for $299 shipped).

    This allows me to shoot shoot them frequently, rotate when needed, and lets me keep a little extra stashed away.

    I also moved from the 147 grain to the 124. However, my decision was not based on bullet performance, but rather becuase I believe the extra energy the +P rounds deliver make for a more reliable firearm under different circumstances.
     
  6. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

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    How is it again that someone would know that a BG won't be able tell the difference of a 100 more FPE?:dunno:
     
  7. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    CA Central Coast
    As a firearms instructor, whenever I get either LE or non-LE shooters asking me questions about ammunition - meaning which is "the best" - I ask them whether their foundation skillset, understanding of tactics and mindset have been well developed and maintained.

    Ever taken some of that money spent put aside to spend on ammunition and invested it in some good training?

    The specific ammunition that's been used in LE shooting incidents is hardly ever as much of an interesting or important topic when shooting incidents are being discussed among LE in general, and firearms instructors and armorers in particular.

    Why?

    Because fast, accurate hits on the intended threat target, combined with effective use of tactics and cover, employed by someone who has the necessary mindset to use them, are critical.
     
  8. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Your follow up shots will be just fine with +P. For crying out loud, it's still 9mm.

    I reload and I set my 124 reloads to match the feel of Gold Dot 124+Ps as closely as possible. My guns haven't broken yet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  9. clarkstoncz

    clarkstoncz

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    The NYPD has been very happy with ti for a number of years, but they will never get
    .40s, or heaven forbid any cartridge with .357 in the name of it..


    I like the Double Tap 147 and 124 +P loads if I choose Gold Dots.
    [​IMG]
    a 124 makes more sense from the shorter barrel guns, but I really like
    147 in .357 SIG as it's very controllable and has less muzzle blast than
    the scorching 125s and 115s.
    [​IMG]

    As others have stated, you are getting a good level of performance with the 124 gr +P.
     
  10. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    A better question would be; why would you think it does?

    100fpe is a very small amount to begin with. It isn't going to knock someone down, no handgun or even (most) rifle rounds are going to knock someone down based upon delivered energy. And it isn't going to make a noticeable difference in damage either along the wound track. And finally, speaking with gun shot perps who were shot with multiple (and differing rounds). None noticed at the time of the shooting what the caliber was, what the velocity of the round or the FPE. They just noted they had a new hole in them.

    First consideration: a reliable round. 124 and 147 are both reliable rounds.

    Second consideration: shot placement. The 124 and 147 discussed are accurate rounds. The rest is up to the shooter.

    Third consideration: adequate penetration. Both the 124 and 147, particular in the bonded bullets discussed offer adequate penetration, particularly though barriers.

    Fourth consideration: fast, accurate follow up shots on target.

    Fifth consideration: traiing that entails all of the above to be utilized while under duress in less than ideal situations.

    Dead last considerations: caliber, veloctiy, energy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  11. Glock19Fan

    Glock19Fan Cool Guy

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    My opinion is most bad guys WOULD feel the 100 FPE difference. Just as they would be able to distinguish the difference between a bean bag load from a bean bag load with 25% more energy. More pain = more likely to stop the fight.

    I dont think pain is a reliable manstopper, especially with the presence of drugs, but if you can produce higher energy levels, similar ballistic performance, more reliable function, all while keeping the same cost then I dont see why not.
     
  12. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    Having an opinion is fine. But what do you base it on? How many people have you shot? How many people do you know that have been shot, with differing rounds, that can then state that they knew of a difference at the time of the shooting? How many operations have you been in to see the damage caused by rounds and different rounds? Not meant as a flame, but gun boards sometimes have too much opinion and not enough solid, factual information, tactics, training and strategy. And as my friend FB above indicates, most seem to be concentrating far too hard on the wrong things.

    Listen to those that are in a position to do the things I've listed above. What are their ammo choices and why? What are their priorities and why? We hold these positions for a reason.

    With all due respect. :wavey:
     
  13. packinaglock

    packinaglock John 3:16

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    Exactly why when you and Fastbolt post I listen!:agree:
     
  14. greenlion

    greenlion

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    Hang on a minute... you are telling Glock19fan that his opinion is invalid because of all the anecdotal evidence from these supposed experts you imply you are in contact with, but I see no real evidence presented for your opinion either. Can you show us scientific data confirming that people who have been shot with bullets having 100fpe difference cannot tell the difference? Show us the "Solid Factual Information" you are talking about. Keep in mind that anecdotal evidence and single data points are meaningless in scientific endeavors...
     
  15. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

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    Dead last considerations: caliber, velocity, energy? I don't know, I would be inclined to use a 9mm that I shoot slower for personal defense than a .22 that makes me feel like a super hero on the range.
     
  16. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Anyone that thinks velocity/energy doesn't matter, then why is .380 so anemic? Why is a smaller and lighter .223 moving at 3200 fps pretty effective?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  17. 9mm +p+

    9mm +p+

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    I've personally seen 147's bounce off of car doors and a side windows, velocity does matter,period. As does energy.
     
  18. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

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    I know that post was for him but I interject with all due respect.
     
  19. Glock19Fan

    Glock19Fan Cool Guy

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    I have plenty of training and I believe I am justified on focusing on the type of ammunition I use. 25% of anything is quite a bit. I do believe pain is a factor in stopping power for the same reasons less than lethal weapons are often used efficiently. Are they 100 percent reliable? No. Nothing short of a solid headshot it. But they are proven.
     
  20. countrygun

    countrygun

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    why don't you put it in terms of this discussion?

    would a ,223 moving 100fps faster than a 147 gn 9mm be more effective than the 9mm?