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Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Mr. Blandings, Mar 13, 2012.
Florida law on Justifiable Use of Force - FSS Chapter 776.
Seems to me the Baker brothers know they can drive whichever way they want on a public roadway and act like bullies because the vast majority of people are just not going to get involved.
I have a feeling this one isn't going to end well...
The security guard will not be charged. Florida's "stand your ground" laws will protect him.
I'm not going to judge the shooter because as with any news story there will always be something missing. I will say that if I ever see someone driving that dangerously that I want to call it in, I'm not going to follow so closely that I don't leave a way to drive away safely.
Depending on the totality of the circumstances, the police could; declare it to be a justifiable use of deadly force, or recommend sending it to a grand jury.
At some point when aggressive and agitated people are approaching your car, you need to roll up the windows, lock the doors and drive away.Everyone goes home alive. If you're boxed in, then call 911. However, the shooter's real mistake was to follow the guy all the way to his subdivision. If someone did that to me, I'd be agitated and might even approach the guy's car aggressively because he followed me to my house.
There's just something hinky about this.
Why would you want to start a confrontation with someone?
Someone is following you as you're driving home. You turn into your subdivision, they follow. What would you do?
How does the security guy know that's where the brothers live? And since they were in two (2) cars, did they box him in so he couldn't drive around them?
Article wasn't clear on that. Wait.
It seemed like the article noted that the vehicles came to a stop and Brandon Baker exited his vehicle and aggressively approached Browning's car.
I have to assume Brandon's car was stopped on the right lane/against curb. He got out his car on the driver's side, and approached along that side of the car (ie: along left lane).
The security guy would have to run him down to get away. But this was before anything started, so the security guy would be guilty of intentionally using a car to run someone down.
Sounded more like he followed them a little too closely and they trapped him.
Whats that old saying? Oh Yeah If you go out looking for trouble chances are your going to find it.
I wouldn't start a confrontation, but I would be pretty upset if someone followed me all the way to my subdivision.
As a fact, that did happen to me several years ago. I noticed some guy following Mrs. LTB and me after we left a local restaurant. At first I thought nothing of it; just coincidence that they guy was making every turn and lane change I made. After a while I thought something was hinky (this was in the days before cell phones), so I drove into a neighboring subdivision. I knew the streets well and kept driving through the maze of streets until the guy was able to tell that I was on to him (went down the same streets multiple times). Eventually the guy stopped following and left the subdivision and we were able to proceed home.
I don't know what the deal was, but I was pretty scared and agitated. Nothing good could come from a direct confrontation, so I did my best to avoid it and everyone went home alive.
There are so many ways the OP story could have turned out better. Mr. Security Guard is not a traffic cop. Leave it be and MYOB.
You can bet more happened then is being reported. Stand your ground was not meant for people that take it upon themselves to stalk others, track them down, or behave like criminals. His actions were one of a agressor, not a victim.
If you can't, if that is your intention, simply get a tag number without getting into a altercation, macing some people, and getting into situation where you have to shoot some unarmed person, who possibly committed some minor traffic offense which is not your duty to enforce, then maybe the security business is not your cup of tea....
I'll bet three things, one he did not show up for work the next day, two his boss will not really be happy to shot someone with the companie's gun, three, his promising security guard career is going down the toliet fast.
Here's how I see it playing out:
Browning was still in his vehicle and therefore not in imminent danger of being killed.
Browning true billed on murder charges.
Browning convicted of murder.
Sentencing will be equal to or less than 5 years prison.
Security career over.
I'm no lawyer but...
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the others imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
History.s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that persons will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle;
I'd keep driving, instead of allowing said clown to know where I live. I'd then proceed to call local LE, identify myself, give a vehicle description of both my truck and the suspect vehicle, then drive to the nearest police station, if possible. Usually, the dispatcher/call taker will try to keep you on the phone, as to update your location to a responding officer.
Being that I "may" have made some unfriendly types dislike me over the years, I tend to pay attention when driving home, especially at night, after work.
Maybe you didn't notice, or someone takes "issues" with whatever you did, mistakes you for someone, etc. There are all kinds of crazies out there. The onus is on the aggressor.
Big point is mr. off duty guard, chose to follow/stalk his victim to deal with whatever issue he perceived happened, "personally."
His phone worked after he had time to mace two people then shoot and kill one of them, so I would assume it was operational at the time he began following them. A simple phone call to the police, would have saved the shooter alot of trouble.
At the end of the day, the price this shooter will pay in legal, financial, criminal, and other costs, will simply not be worth it.
I have been followed to the point of near my home. When I catch a tail, obvious at night, I let them follow me to the point that I am half a mile away from home. If they continue to follow me, I start a zig-zag pattern through the side streets. That does two things: lets them know I know they're following me, and wastes their time. If after the first few zig-zags, they are still following me, I go back to a main road.
I've only been truly followed once, and this technique worked. Turned out it was an old friend that recognized me, but it was still a bit scary, as it was before I got my CPL. I lost my friend with this technique, and didn't find out it was him until the next day. It was funny after the fact, but not so funny at the time.
Well, what does that mean Boss, 'hinky'? I'm taking the stairs and walking.
I'll ask this again... What would you do?