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Obamacare question....

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by BSA70, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. G29Reload

    G29Reload Tread Lightly

    Sep 28, 2009

    Dont advocate failed leftist statist socialist nonsense capable of destroying our country and you wont hear a peep.
  2. GVFlyer

    GVFlyer Senior Member

    Sep 9, 2008
    Somewhere in the air.
    How about a reason inoculation? ...for your mental health, of course.

    The short answer is that The Affordable Care act will increase costs to provide inferior healthcare while simultaneously eliminating patient choice.

    Those who gain coverage under Obamacare will be enrolled in Medicaid, the welfare program for the poor, or in a health plan designed by the government. The millions who remain uninsured will still be crowding emergency rooms.

    While the indigent are moving into Medicaid, many of the employed will be losing their health insurance. According to a McKinsey study, 30 percent of employers will opt out of ESI because of expense while another 66% will reduce benefits for the same reason.

    New taxes on drug companies ($27 billion) and medical device makers ($20 billion), as well as new reporting requirements and regulations imposed on physicians, will make access to health care and services more costly for consumers.

    As you probably know, the states are opting out of the exchanges and 21 State Attorneys General have filed suits to protect their citizens from being forced to purchase government approved health insurance.

    $52 billion in new taxes imposed on businesses by mandating employers provide health insurance and new IRS reporting requirements and other business related taxes and regulations will reduce the number of jobs available to Americans.

    The 3.8% in new Obamacare taxes on dividends, capital gains and rental income will inhibit investment and will have negative effect on economic growth in our country.

    Over the next 10 years Obamacare will cost a $trillion dollars; half of that figure will be added to the deficit, kicking the can down the road for our children to pay.

    Your whole argument seems specious to me anyway - 51 cents of every healthcare dollar is spent already spent in the public sector - for Medicare/Medicaid. A quarter is spent for the non-profit Blueshield and Bluecross. Only 25 cents of the healthcare dollar is spent on the for-profit UnitedHealth Group, Wellpoints and Aetnas of the world- companies that have an aspirational profit margin of 3%.

    Most hospitals are not profit centers either - most break about even. 15% of hospitals lost money last year - under Obamacare these hospitals will close.

    In that 18 million people will be added to the already overburdened Medicaid system, it's interesting to note that according to the AMA, 66% of doctors are contemplating no longer participating in the program because of the currently mandated 56% of market standard reimbursement rate.

    There seems to be an egality issue here as well - why should a healthy 25 year old male pay for birth control, abortion and the healthcare needs of the elderly? Ask New Yorkers how well "Community Rating" is working for them. Smart kids will pay the fine.

    In the US, 80% of pathology is behavioral - this will never be corrected as long as someone else pays. Obamacare does little to change the etiology of pathology.

    Presently, by any standard, the US has the best medical outcomes in the world and the highest creation and use rate of medical technology. Why would you want to change that?
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013

  3. jdeere_man

    jdeere_man CLM

    Feb 25, 2007
    NW Missouri
    I would say look in the mirror, but it you already told us that won't do any good.
  4. Shinytop


    Sep 5, 2012
    Below is what I wrote on another forum right after the bill passed:

    The saddest part of the health bill just passed is not that it will cost Caterpiller so much money it will affect jobs creation. It is not that any one segment will have more or less taxes or that any part of the population will have better or worse health care.
    It is that this sad excuse for a health care bill will become entrenched.
    Oh, we had to start somewhere is an argument we hear. It is better than nothing is an argument we hear. Both are sad excuses for not having been able to do better. Both will be long forgotten down the road when someone lists the steps taken to the ruination of American health care.
    The first step taken should have been fixing the items wrong with the current system. Or at least they should have been the foundation of this bill. Instead the administration decided they wanted their legacy to include a national health care bill. I suspect the passage of this bandaid-do little approach will be listed as the biggest, most long lasting failure of the administration.
    Where is the protection for medical practitioners from frivolous lawsuits?
    Where is the fix for medical payments for Medicaid, Medicare, and Tricare? Either the government is putting the screws to doctors for treating patients under these programs or medical care is so overpriced for everybody else that doctors don’t want to waste their time with these patients. Either way it has to be fixed for any system to succeed.
    Where are the laws with meat to severely punish doctors who scam the system? Where is the push for the feds and state governments to quit allowing insurance companies to disappear when they are facing actually honoring their policies?
    Where are the reforms for the cost of prescription medicine?
    Where is the specific program to provide medical care in a cheaper manner than sniffles and splinters in the emergency rooms?
    We needed preexisting conditions covered. But how can you hope to make that affordable for the country unless everybody is paying for some coverage all along. The bogeyman of people getting insurance the day after they discover their expensive disease sounds pretty certain. So if we need a single payer, must have coverage system how did we arrive at a system that keeps so much the same?
    So what politician did you hear speaking up for a system that protects all Americans. Each of them did their job of protecting their constituents (funny how that also keeps their asses in their fat cat seats) but I did not or hear of anybody standing up and demanding a system that will protect the most people for the longest time.
    So we are letting/demanding that our federal government take over every function of our lives. At the same time no local government can afford to come up with a solution based on what their part of the country wants.
    So we have a health care bill and BO has something he thinks he can hang his legacy on. And future attempts to make our system work better will be based on this bill. A bill stacked on top of such a weak foundation it cannot hope to improve health care in the long run. Maybe the strategy all along was to pass such a bad bill that the whole system will collapse so it can be built right. All I am sure of is that a bad bill is not better than no bill at all. And that as long as we accept bad legislation in lieu of actually fixing national issues the less hope we have of actually improving anything.
  5. Paul53

    Paul53 Geezer Boomer

    Nov 27, 2011
    Shinytop, just read your post. Not bad at all.

    On a tangential topic, if you live in a big city, you've probably heard or seen ads saying something along the lines of no more ER waiting. You call a number to make an appointment. In the cities that I know of it's the private hospitals doing this.
    Call the number to schedule an appointment and they'll ask for a credit card for a token payment to hold your time slot. The net affect of this is to siphon the more financially stable patients to their hospitals, leaving the rest of the patients to go to the city county hospitals.
    City/county hospitals is something noticeably absent in the discussion. They are supported through taxes, and often will affiliate with a medical school so they can get residents to do the work of board certified doctors for cheap. They also often will get federal funds to become "Trauma Centers." Since the majority of trauma patients are indigent, and as a whole trauma patients have more poor outcomes, there are fewer trauma centers every year.
    I have tried to avoid working for private hospitals because the patients in city/county hospitals are usually much more grateful for care. As one co-worker put it "we're here to save your ass, not kiss it."
    Don't know if any of this is new or useful to you, just felt like sharing. Paul
  6. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Jan 16, 2005
    You get the best healthcare by paying doctors enough that the best people compete for the spots in medical school and the lesser people go teach biology somewhere. Socializing healthcare gets you exactly the opposite of the best. There is no logical argument to the contrary. It won't increase the quanity or quality of medical professionals so, at best, you can argue that at least the lower quality care won't be as expensive.
  7. GAFinch


    Feb 23, 2009
    Add pot smoking into that and you'll see public support for Pelosicare drop dramatically.

    This does point out the problem with left wing bureaucrats running this thing. What if you drink soda? What if you're not a vegetarian? What if you follow a low carb diet instead of a government-approved low fat diet? What if you own firearms?
  8. Electrikkoolaid

    Electrikkoolaid Grape flavored!

    Mar 1, 2010
    Obamacare's main failing is it does absolutely nothing to control costs. Providers are free to rape and pillage your wallet, at will, and a third party keeps the sticker shock from causing you to object to the larceny.

    Anyone who mentions "free market" misses the point that you must have an informed buyer and a seller constrained by competitive forces. (Who is going to price shop when they are having chest pains?)

    Most "consumers" have no idea what they are "buying", why they need it, and with insurance "paying for it" could care less about the actual cost.

    How much would a new car cost if you walked into the dealership under these parameters?
  9. Paul53

    Paul53 Geezer Boomer

    Nov 27, 2011
    Medical is private sector? So wrong. All the Medicare and Medicaid dollars people complain about go to healthcare. Any hospital (almost all) that accepts that money is heavily regulated by the federal government. Read the notices on the walls as you enter the ER telling you what the hospitals' obligation to you is as far as a "screening exam" and "privacy." Privately owned hospitals here often turn people away for financial reasons. Take your broken arm and catch the cross town bus to the county hospital.

    I'm not arguing, forgive me if I come across that way. I'm passionate about wanting the sick and injured to get the best care. I'm trying, as a former healthcare provider, to educate people about the healthcare system. A system called "healthcare" shouldn't, IMHO, put $ ahead of healthcare.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  10. Taphius


    Sep 26, 2011
    Las Vegas
    Any entity that is suppose to stay in the black has to put $$$ ahead of other things.

    The federal gov needs to take it over completely or get the hell out of it and stop skewing the prices like they did/are doing with education and housing.
  11. How about this? YOU pay for your own care. No government involvement. Go to a "third world" country. If you don't have the money, you're not getting care. That includes little babies. I've seen it. Can't save everybody. Everyone dies eventually anyway. That's life.
  12. RimfireMan


    Jan 16, 2011
    Central Texas
    Thanks for the attempt at an insult, but no, I'm a multi-generational Texas.

    Three pages so far with this thread and my original post has proven correct. :rofl:
  13. Haha I was just telling my dad the other day that some parts of Texas can be deceivingly liberal.
  14. Haha I was just telling my dad the other day that some parts of Texas can be deceivingly liberal.
  15. Haha I was just telling my dad the other day that some parts of Texas can be deceivingly liberal.