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NYC 'Stop & Frisk'

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by barbedwiresmile, May 12, 2012.


  1. seanmac45

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  2. lancesorbenson

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    Does Bloomberg ringingly endorse stop and frisks or not? I would say he does. Does Bloomberg, as the chief executive of NYC, have the power to make changes to police procedure? Probably. Is Bloomberg a big government, gun-hating, nanny-stater? Absolutely. So I would say Bloomberg fits into the discussion pretty obviously.

    I can see you are either not grasping or are being purposefully obtuse regarding my position that the legality is not the issue. Meeting the minimum standard under the SC's interpretation has yielded a 12% success rate. For every 1 stop and frisk that nets a criminal violation, 7 citizens are molested by the state under a standard that clearly should be rethought. If you think that's acceptable then you and I have vastly different understanding of what it means to be a free country.
     

  3. Sam Spade

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    Or maybe he has a better grasp of "reasonable suspicion" than you do.
     
  4. CAcop

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    NYC could tighten the rules but then they would loose those arrests due to officers not being able to conduct Terry stops.

    Don't like Terry stops? Find a place that doesn't do them.

    Good luck with that. Even SF does them. Berkeley might not.
     
  5. CAcop

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    #125 CAcop, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  6. BORNGEARHEAD

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  7. TBO

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  8. G19G20

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    Appears the NY State appeals court is starting to reverse convictions based on this Stop and Frisk racial profiling.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ny-appeals-court-vacates-another-stop-frisk-conviction-215018205.html

     
  9. series1811

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  10. G19G20

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    Claims to be one of the only recordings of a stop and frisk, along with commentary.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rWtDMPaRD8&feature=player_embedded"]The Hunted and the Hated: An Inside Look at the NYPD's Stop-and-Frisk Policy - YouTube[/ame]#!
     
  11. Bren

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    You mean like where it says:

    That seems to fit with these being Terry stops.

    They complain that the majority of people being stopped are black or Hispanic. I'd say, take a look at the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and you'll see why - any law enforcement in New York will have the same "racist" result.
     
    #131 Bren, Oct 11, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  12. Bren

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    Even you have to realize it doesn't mean that at all. It means 7 out of 8 people stopped don't have evidence on them that warrants an arrest at that time - that doesn't mean they haven't committed a crime or aren't in the process.

    Think about Mr. Terry in Terry v. Ohio - a whole group of guys were stopped because the police had reasonable suspicion that they were casing a store for a robbery. The majority of them were let go because there was no evidence on them - terry just got arrested because he had a concealed weapon. They were criminals in the process of committing a serious crime, that doesn't mean the Terry stop should result in arrest. It did, however, deter the crime - those evil, unjustified police actually prevented an armed robbery without arresting the robbers, by doing a Terry stop.
     
    #132 Bren, Oct 11, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  13. G19G20

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    That's the entire point. (Btw, "the whole group of guys" was a total of 3.)

    The whole argument on these stop and frisks in this thread is that stop and frisks generally are NOT lawful Terry Stops, unlike the original Terry case where a particular behavior was observed that led a cop to reasonably believe a crime was in commission or about to be committed and was likely correct. Terry stops are legal when particular facts can be alleged that point to possible criminal activity. Terry stops require a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity and the original case fulfilled that. Stop and frisks going on in NYC, at the rate of 1800 PER DAY, are not Terry stops. This is why the success rate is so poor. Did you see that video I posted a few posts above? What they're engaging in is profiling and harrassment. I don't doubt that a stop and frisk may occasionally deter a crime. The question is whether it is constitutional to stop people that are doing nothing articulable other than "wrong place at the wrong time". Surely you're not suggesting that the 7 of 8 were about to commit a crime and just got lucky.
     
    #133 G19G20, Oct 11, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  14. Bren

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    The article, biased as it is, does give some indication that they are Terry stops. They try to imply that they are random stops, but the evidence and reading up a little from other sources says otherwise. New York's position is that these stops are based on reasonable suspicion. I see no evidence to the contrary and you state none.

    1,800 a day? How many people are in New York? about 40.000 cops without including the overlapping jurisdictions. Does that come out to about 1 on-duty cop in 20 makes 1 Terry stop per day? Maybe less than that? Indianapolis may have a higher rate of Terry stops - so they use raw numbers to make it seem like a lot.
     
  15. G19G20

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    Cops lie. Surely you know this. Again I ask if you watched the video I posted above? That young man is the typical Stop and Frisk in NYC. I obviously can't argue the evidence of each case and that's foolish since even a blind squirrel gets lucky sometimes (1 in 8 probably!). The 1 in 8 stat tells the story, considering how many times a day this occurs. That's the evidence that it's a bad policy. Again I ask if 7 in 8 are just lucky?

    If I lived in Indianapolis I'd be making a stink at the city council.

    I don't care how big NYC is. This is supposed to be a free country with a Bill of Rights designed to prevent harassment from "the man" and no one should have to worry about being stopped for being a "****in mutt".
     
  16. barbedwiresmile

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    Are you serious?
     
  17. Bren

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    I'm sure you'd be making a stink no matter where you lived. The video you posted? Ridiculous.
    You have to be pretending - otherwise you wouldn't be able to figure out how to get on the internet and type things in English.:upeyes: You can't seriously think that audio recording supports you or proves something.
     
    #137 Bren, Oct 12, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  18. greenman19

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    If this is your starting premise then you will never be satisfied with any reasonable answer. I mean, where can we go from here?
     
  19. AtlantaR6

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    So you write a formal report every time you do one, and all those people (Including the DA) review each of them, even if you find nothing and let the person go?

    No offense, but I find that very hard to believe. A more believable scenario is you stop and search whoever you want, and only report the ones you charge.
     
  20. Sam Spade

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    Oh look! It's up again.

    Proverbs 26:11 seems to be on point.