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Numbers don't lie or have agendas

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by greentriple, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. greentriple


    Mar 11, 2010
    With the recent killings in Colorado, Wisconsin and most recently Texas, it seems the same old same old for advocates for and against gun regulation is void of reason and fat with ideology. Can their be a rational, civilized discussion? We know criminals don't care about laws and will do as they please, but until they killed, the suspects in he aforementioned killings were apparently law abiding citizens, who got guns through legal channels. Do we ignore this realty and continue as we are? Perhaps the following numbers can help guide a healthy conversation?

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  2. whoflungdo


    Jul 15, 2008
    Then they should be punished if found guilty of their crimes appropriately and severely rather than making a new law that makes buying guns legally through legal means illegal...

  3. Berto

    Berto woo woo

    Sep 15, 2003
    Sure, more science and experiments could be utilized and more money spent to tell us **** 99% of us already know.
  4. Lethaltxn


    Mar 23, 2010
    This is really all that needs to be said.
  5. rgregoryb

    rgregoryb Amerikaner

    Oct 20, 2004
    Republic of Alabama
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  6. JBnTX

    JBnTX Bible Thumper

    Aug 28, 2008
    Fort Worth Texas

    Ain't that the truth.
    I've got a doctor trying to kill me right now.
  7. The Machinist

    The Machinist No Compromise

    Sep 20, 2009
    The Left Coast
    A useless article from a useless gun hater.
  8. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

    Aug 20, 2002
    Car Crashes Kill 40,000 in U.S. Every Year

    cars should be outlawed?

    When someone is killed by a drunk driver

    do you say a Ford or Chevy killed them?
  9. pipedreams

    pipedreams Member

    Feb 19, 2011
    S. E. Iowa
    This NPR!!!!! It seems that in most ever case their is a mental health issue. The country's mental health problems should be addresses rather than guns. Do we ignore this realty and continue as we are?
  10. Jarhead247

    Jarhead247 Bitter & Clingy

    Oct 4, 2008
    Kansas City, MO
    Or try & hold the brewery/distillery responsible??
  11. series1811

    series1811 Enforcerator. CLM

    I think you got your bulletin boards mixed up.

    This is Glocktalk, not DU.

    We here, including myself, with 26 years of law enforcement in my background, believe that gun laws are completely ineffective in stopping gun crime.

    I don't believe this because of what anyone has told me, but rather, because of what I have experienced, in dealing with criminals and crime, as my job.

    But, thank you for reminding us that there are people like you out there, and that you know you need Obama as President, with a Democratic Congress, to get what you want.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  12. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    I have to ask the question, why didn't someone stand up and shoot these animals and stop their mayhem?

    Why didn't several people stand up and and put a stop to these sickening rampages?

    Many (mostly liberal) Americans have been conditioned to believe it is more noble to let the animals win than to do what is necessary to protect their own lives. (Well, maybe it's OK to run and hide.)

    Add to that the attitude that it is someone elses job to keep them safe and they are easy pickin's.

    None of the monsters should have gotten off more than a round or two before they were shot to the ground by good people who refuse to quietly lie down and die.

    Happyguy :)
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  13. Yep, numbers don't lie...
    Number of deaths for leading causes of death
    • Heart disease: 599,413
    • Cancer: 567,628
    • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
    • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
    • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
    • Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
    • Diabetes: 68,705
    • Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
    • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
    • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909
    "In 2008, there were 14,800 prescription painkiller deaths."

    Preventable Medical Errors – The Sixth Biggest Killer in America
    "The Institute of Medicine’s (IOM) seminal study of preventable medical errors estimated as many as 98,000 people die every year at a cost of $29 billion.1 If the Centers for Disease Control were to include preventable medical errors as a category, these conclusions would make it the sixth leading cause of death in America. 2"

    There are those who naively think having a "healthy conversation" with their stated goal of enacting more gun laws that ONLY infringe on the rights of those who follow the law will somehow prevent a person from harming another with a firearm.

    The reality is that most laws are meant to punish after the fact, not prevent a crime from occurring in the first place. Short of going kicking in door to kicking in door, violating a whole host of individual rights in the process, to confiscate all firearms, there is no way to prevent what Progressives call "gun crimes" by those who choose to intentionally harm another human being with a firearm.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  14. series1811

    series1811 Enforcerator. CLM

    Those are the real numbers. Your chances of being a victim of a firearms related crime, are slim to start with, and go down even more if you are ready to deal with it if it occurs (like many other possibly fatal incidents).
  15. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454

    Jun 20, 2002
    Yep the debate that needs to be had = No more infringements on the 2nd! It's not the firearms killing people it's the people behind those firearms! Would we be having this discussion if they had used a knife, car, or a bomb?:faint:
  16. Kablam


    Jan 12, 2005
    The article states that it's about saving lives...apparently regardless of what that pesky Constitution says. If it was really about saving lives, how about considering the 1.3 million (give or take) lives taken by abortion in this country every year. I'm not taking a stand on agenda...but numbers don't lie.
  17. IvanVic


    Apr 19, 2012
    Car accidents and medical mistakes are just that, mistakes. Murder is not a mistake - so the comparison is pretty useless. Let's not reduce ourselves to the level of foolishness shown by the anti-gun crowd by using these senseless comparisons.

    The bottom line is that gun control has been proven to be ineffective - you don't need comparisons to articulate that point.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  18. Senseless comparisons? Does not the government have thousands of pages of rules, regulations, and laws that are supposedly aimed at reducing car accidents and medical mistakes?
    Your preaching to the choir for the most part, well except maybe the OP. Anyone who takes an honest look at the statistics and what the politicians claimed the gun laws were supposed to do when passed, know that most gun laws are ineffective at preventing crime or murder.

    The problem is those who advocate for more gun laws are operating on emotion and refuse to have an honest debate about gun laws. They use terms like having a "healthy conversation" when in reality they will not budge from their position, and expect the other side to cave in to their "reasonable" "common sense" gun control laws. When has an anti ever seriously advocated for less gun laws?

    Anti's tend to be statists who see more laws (and rules) and growing the size of the government as the solution to all problems, real or imagined.

    Fortunately, the anti's have been loosing ground both in the court of law and in the court of public opinion as of late.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  19. jakebrake

    jakebrake cracker

    Jan 11, 2011
    too close to philly
    sadly, machinist....useless seems a little to tame for either of the above.
  20. IvanVic


    Apr 19, 2012
    Yes, and they're not the least bit comparable to a firearm. The government also has laws that attempt to reduce robbery, murder and arson - those are also not comparable to firearms. The argument against gun control is plenty sound enough to stand on its own - it is also very hard to draw a valid comparison because it's such a unique subject.