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Norfolk meeting of the minds

Discussion in 'Glockers of the Old Dominion' started by TexasGlock23, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. TexasGlock23

    TexasGlock23 Salty Collar

    Dec 31, 2005
    Dallas, TX
    Straight from the VCDL email. Not sure if I will make it, but at least I can get others involved.


    As you might recall, Norfolk paid VCDL member Danladi Moore $10,000
    for unlawfully harassing him for openly carrying a gun. The check was
    barely in the bank when the Norfolk police did it to him again on a
    Norfolk bus, as was detailed in the VCDL mini-update on September 22nd.

    You would think that Norfolk would have learned their lesson (don't
    forget that Chet Szymecki and his wife, Deborah, each still have
    lawsuits against Norfolk in federal court over Chet's unlawful arrest
    last year in Norfolk, too).

    We need you to join us next Tuesday, October 7th, as we tell City
    Council that these repeated violations are not acceptable.

    As Ian Fleming wrote in the James Bond novel, "Goldfinger" - "Once is
    happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time is enemy action."

    Tidewater - you are great at huge turnouts (we had over 100 last time
    we did this). Can we have another big turnout to make sure our
    message is clear yet again?

    I plan to be there at 6:30 PM and will hand out the "Guns Save Lives"
    stickers so all of us will be easily identified as part of the same

    If you want to speak, you will need to sign up before the meeting
    starts at 7 PM. But even if you don't speak, your presence is
    critical to underscore our message that we expect Norfolk to respect
    our rights. I will ask those who agree with me to stand during my

    It will be interesting to see if City Councilman Riddick will
    shamefully turn his back on his constituents and leave the room like
    he did the last time we tried to redress our grievances over this same

  2. PVanCleave


    Jun 11, 2005
    Midlothian, VA
    Head in the sand :notlistening:
  3. PVanCleave


    Jun 11, 2005
    Midlothian, VA

    By Harry Minium
    The Virginian-Pilot
    (c) October 5, 2008

    Once again, members of a guns-rights advocacy group are coming to City
    Hall, claiming their rights have been violated by the police.

    The Virginia Citizens Defense League, a Northern Virginia-based group,
    said 100 or more of its members will descend upon Tuesday's City
    Council meeting to vent their displeasure, many with guns holstered to
    their hips.

    The group is upset about a police confrontation involving a member
    carrying a weapon openly, which is legal in Virginia.

    The group last came to the City Council in August 2007, when members
    protested the arrest of Chet Szymecki of Yorktown at Harborfest for
    openly carrying a gun. The charge was dropped; Szymecki has filed a
    federal suit against the city.

    They also protested at that meeting about alleged harassment of
    Danladi Moore, a Peninsula resident who was stopped twice by police
    and questioned for openly carrying a gun shortly before the meeting.

    The city paid Moore $10,000 in July to prevent what could have been
    long and costly litigation.

    However, Moore said, he again was stopped, on Sept. 22, this time
    while attempting to ride a Hampton Roads Transit bus with a gun. Moore
    claims police took his gun, ordered him off a bus and threatened to
    arrest him before eventually giving the gun back and letting him go.

    Chris Amos, police spokesman, said he couldn't respond to Moore's
    specific claims about his September run-in with officers.

    "All I know is, we responded to a call for service," Amos said. "We
    are not at liberty to just refuse" to do so.

    Amos said that after Moore's previous incidents, police leaders "sent
    a memo out in-house reasserting the rights citizens have to carry
    firearms in plain view." There hasn't been time to react to the latest
    incident, he said.

    Philip Van Cleave, a Midlothian resident who heads the guns-rights
    group, said he believes Moore will sue the city over the latest

    "If Norfolk doesn't begin to get it right, Danladi may wind up owning
    a yacht or a castle somewhere," he said. "At some point, the people of
    Norfolk are going to get tired of their tax money being thrown away
    because the police are violating a basic right," he added.

    City Council members acknowledged that the city may have erred, but
    they accused gun owners of being provocative.

    Councilman W. Randy Wright has a concealed-weapons permit, has won
    awards for marksmanship and believes in gun rights, he said. Yet he
    said he is appalled by anyone who walks around with a gun in a

    "Walking around downtown with a gun on your hip, that's just somebody
    trying to get attention, somebody trying to embarrass the city," he
    said. "This is not Wyatt Earp in the wild, wild West. It's an urban
    city with lots of problems.

    "It does absolutely nothing to further the rights of the Second Amendment."

    Replied Van Cleave: "He's admitting the city has a lot of problems.
    That, in itself, is a reason to carry, because you may need to protect

    Van Cleave said he wonders if the incident with Moore was racially
    motivated, as he is black.

    Councilman Paul R. Riddick said that's ridiculous.

    "When you see a guy standing downtown in front of a bank with a gun
    on, what would you expect the average policeman to do?" he said.
    "You'd expect him to find out what the hell is going on."

    Riddick and other council members weren't aware of the financial
    settlement with Moore. "Before we issue another $10,000 check, we
    should go to the highest court in the land," he said.

    Councilman Barclay C. Winn, who is a hunter, said the guns-rights
    group's actions are precisely why he won't joint the NRA - the
    powerful lobbyists the National Rifle Association.

    "I believe in the right to bear arms," he said. "But I just don't
    understand why somebody feels the need to strap a gun on his side,
    knowing full well that people are going to be alarmed and upset. I
    don't understand why they have to be such big, bad macho men."

    Van Cleave said this is not about being macho - it's about exercising
    a constitutional right.

    "What the city of Norfolk is asking us to do is to give up one of our
    basic constitutional rights," he said. "Would you ask black citizens
    to sit in the back of the bus and shut up?"

    Riddick left while Van Cleave's group spoke during last year's
    meeting, saying he didn't want to dignify the group by staying. The
    meeting was at times tense.

    Riddick said he knows a way to ease the tension.

    "We should call Bob's Gun Shop and have him deliver eight
    9-millimeters to us," he said. "We'll keep them on our desk in case we
    need them."
  4. Jerseycitysteve


    Nov 11, 2004
    Mr Wright is a solid friend of RKBA and also understands the politics of the issue. Attention grabbing street theater and the constant attempt of people, who don't even live here, to embarrass the city of Norfolk does absolutely nothing to further the rights under the Second Amendment.

    The VCDL provides an excellent straw man for NRA haters like Councilman Winn. The VCDL's meretricious publicity seeking will only cause a backlash and lead to Texas like open carry laws here in Virginia. I want to see the extension of gun rights--particularly the right to carry concealed in Restaurants that serve liquor. Tactics that end up alienating, angering and frightening voters don't help the cause.

    I have a suggestion for Phil and the leadership. Get a tape of the City Council meeting and hire a professional pollster to convene a focus group of a cross section of Virginia citizens. In my opinion as a student of politics, you won't like the results.
  5. PVanCleave


    Jun 11, 2005
    Midlothian, VA
    That explains why Virginia has been losing gun rights at such a rapid pace, Steve. All these years of VCDL "street theater," as you affectionately call it, have really done us in. :rofl:

    Steve, the City of Norfolk does a great job of embarrassing itself without our help. :supergrin:

    Most of the City's victims live in the area, BTW.
  6. Jerseycitysteve


    Nov 11, 2004

    What gun rights have the citizens lost?
  7. PVanCleave


    Jun 11, 2005
    Midlothian, VA
    I was hoping you could tell me. You seem to be in fear of that:

    "The VCDL's meretricious publicity seeking will only cause a backlash and lead to Texas like open carry laws here in Virginia."

    How come we haven't had that backlash that all your dire warnings have predicted over the last 3 years or so?

    What you seem to be saying is that we shouldn't use a right for fear it will get taken away. If we don't use it for such fear, isn't it already gone?
  8. PVanCleave


    Jun 11, 2005
    Midlothian, VA
    From today's VCDL alert:

    Last night over 60 VCDL members showed up at the Norfolk City Council
    meeting to protest the Norfolk PD harassing a VCDL member, Danladi
    Moore, who was open carrying on a bus.

    A link to coverage by the Virginian-Pilot, along with video, is at the
    end of this alert.

    After the meeting, a dozen of us, including Danladi Moore, went to a
    restaurant in the Waterside Mall. We had a great time - good company
    and good conversation. All of us were open carrying as the restaurant
    sold alcoholic beverages.

    As I left the restaurant I said goodnight to Danladi as he and a
    friend were heading up an escalator to the second floor.

    Little did I know what was about to transpire in the next 50 seconds...

    Upon reaching the second floor and stepping off the escalator, a
    Norfolk police officer approached Danladi and his friend and told him
    that he couldn't have a gun in a public building.

    NOTE: It is my understanding that they Waterside Mall is actually
    owned or partially owned by the City of Norfolk. If so, they CANNOT
    ban guns there, of course.

    Danladi said that, especially as public property, he most certainly
    could carry there.

    The officer the handcuffed Danladi, who is black, and issued a him
    summons with a charge of trespass at that point and released him. His
    friend, who is white and also open carrying, was escorted off the
    premises and not handcuffed or charged. Hmmmm.

    Boy, Norfolk PD just seems to be digging themselves in deeper and
    deeper. I know that Dennis O'Connor, John Fenter, Richard Popkin,
    and I walked past several officers while open carrying at that mall
    and not a word was said to us.

    On top of all this, I was approached by a 20ish black man after the
    meeting, who said he had been open carrying as he walked down a street
    in his neighborhood in Norfolk and an officer stopped him and asked
    him about his openly carried handgun. The officer ask him for ID,
    which he wasn't carrying (no need for a driver's license if you are
    not driving). The gun owner did give his name and social security
    number to the officer.

    He said the officer told him that since he couldn't show proof that he
    owned the handgun he was carrying, the officer was going to confiscate
    the gun and charge him. Of course there is NO requirement to show
    that you own the gun you're carrying. So, not surprisingly, the
    actual charge was (are you sitting down?) carrying a CONCEALED
    handgun!!! I saw the summons that the gun owner had with him.

    Unbelievable. The officer sees the gun and then charges him with
    having a concealed handgun.

    An attorney was there and I hooked the two up.

    Of course, keep in mind there are two sides to each story and I have
    not heard the officer's side. Hopefully, whatever the truth is, it
    will come out in court.

    Finally, the City is requiring anyone who enters the Norfolk City
    Council building to sign in and show ID. If you don't show photo ID,
    they photograph you! Both requirements and the photograph are illegal
    under Virginia's Freedom of Information law. That is because they can
    be viewed as intimidation or road blocks to entry.

    VCDL members were refusing to show ID and, at first, the guards were
    blocking admission to them. Then, all of a sudden, the guards let
    everybody in without any interference at all. The guards just stood
    there shaking their heads.

    The word must have come down from on-high to back off.

    Here is coverage of VCDL at the City Council meeting (with video):
  9. TexasGlock23

    TexasGlock23 Salty Collar

    Dec 31, 2005
    Dallas, TX
    I'm confused at what's going on here. I assume Steve has some sort of agenda with my post...?
  10. PVanCleave


    Jun 11, 2005
    Midlothian, VA
    Steve is a big supporter of the Norfolk police, no matter what they do.

    He jumps in with both feet anytime VCDL even mentions the word "Norfolk" and "police" in the same sentence. ;-)

    He doesn't like VCDL's tactics and Steve and I have pretty much agreed to disagree on Norfolk and VCDL policies.

    You simply, and inadvertently, set off another volley in a war of policies, tactics, and values.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2008
  11. Jerseycitysteve


    Nov 11, 2004
    Truth! Phil and I have the same basic goals but disagree intensely on how to reach them. I remember when I was in High School, "Support Your Local Police" was a popular bumper sticker. I wonder where I might pick up a few.
  12. PVanCleave


    Jun 11, 2005
    Midlothian, VA
    On Halloween, you could dress up like Danladi Moore and go pick some up at the local Norfolk PD station.:upeyes:
  13. HA HA HA! Funny stuff here.