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"No one should have known" you CCW'd — "Being the Gray Man"

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Sam Spade, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. dnuggett

    dnuggett PRO 2A

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    Feb 28, 2005
    DFW TX
    Criminals very often make their mark based off the actions of their target. I wouldn't say that being balls out tactical is the right way to roll, but mimicking someone who is clueless isn't the right move either.

    Walking upright, having a purpose to what you do and generally being confident and aware are all traits that can significantly decrease the chance of a need to defend yourself in the first place.

    I understand the thread is about how not to be made, but purposely mimicking a person in condition white, where the only person who knows you have a clue what is going on around you, is you (mimic but be in a heightened level) is going a bit far in my opinion.
     
  2. BailRecoveryAgent

    BailRecoveryAgent Rude Member

    3,063
    3
    Aug 2, 2010
    Yes you should. No amount of training, range time, and situational awareness will be able to stop the hail of gunfire headed your direction if someone figures out its a Smith in your waist band while falsely advertising it as a Colt.
     


  3. crsuribe

    crsuribe 10mm Auto

    1,752
    1
    Jul 3, 2010
    OH
    Wait, so why is it so extremely wrong to not be perfectly "grey"? From reading this thread, it sounds like some sort of capital sin or something really really bad.

    I'm 5'6, about 140lbs and I carry a G.20SF IWB 24/7. If I'm not at work, then I'm carrying. Now, it doesn't really print too terribly bad but if one of you hawk eyes saw me you would definitely know I'm carrying. But, why should I give a dang? 99.9% of the people out there do not notice and those who do, well, if it bothers you then feel free to buy me a pocket pistol or whatever kind of gear you consider I should have in order to conceal "properly" 'cause I sure as heck can't afford it and refuse to leave my home without my 'life insurance' just because some nosy stranger might feel uncomfortable around me. I don't live in TX or any state that punishes people for being 'made' and most people in this area are pretty gun friendly. Heck, even my wife's therapist talks about guns with us! So what's the big deal?

    Anyway why did you arrest that guy Spade? What was he doing?
     
  4. dnuggett

    dnuggett PRO 2A

    2,153
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    Feb 28, 2005
    DFW TX
    -Pause thread-

    Man from Ohio says he's not from a bad, gun unfriendly state like Texas.

    -Unpause thread-
     
  5. LongGoneDays

    LongGoneDays Misanthropical

    9,249
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    Nov 12, 2005
    Louisiana

    He'd be correct in some instances. Mainly the one he pointed out.
     
  6. eracer

    eracer Where's my EBT?

    6,711
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    Apr 5, 2011
    Tampa, FL
    Well DANG!

    I wear BDU's because they are the most comfortable and useful pants for me.

    I wear a Wilderness belt because it's a great belt.

    I carry a clip knife in my right front pocket and a flashlight in a holder on my belt because I use them every day.

    I wear whatever color shirt I feel like wearing that day. And if it happens to say something political or is gun-related? This is America.

    And if you're a cop, and you see the outline of my gun in my pocket? I couldn't care less. I'm a responsible, law-abiding citizen of the State of Florida, and my right to dress the way I want while carrying a concealed weapon is protected.

    I'll walk right past a cop, look him in the eye, and smile. He won't stop me, even if my apparel, attitude, and bulge in my pocket scream "WEAPON!" And if he does, it'll just be a waste of his time and mine.
     
    F350 likes this.
  7. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Lifetime Member

    14,814
    2,140
    May 4, 2003
    Look, I really don't care what y'all wear or how you act.

    The purpose of the thread was to address one of the fallacies of CCW: the whole "concealed means concealed" isn't really happening and it actually relies on people's inattention and not your concealment. If you don't care, fine. The thread's not for you, and you can keep doing what you're doing.

    OTOH, if you think you might actually want or need to carry concealed, or ditch the target indicators that invite increased scrutiny of you in particular, then that's different, isn't it?
     
    nursetim likes this.
  8. bronc25

    bronc25

    48
    0
    Feb 25, 2010
    Hubert, NC
    I agree with doing whatever you can to make youself blend into the crowd. Where i live button up shop shirts are very popular and the will cover a large gun with no problem without drawing attention. But i think that it should continue over in everything you do, it doesn't help to blend in with your clothing when you go get in you truck with that big "protected by glock" sticker on you back window. Just my .02
     
  9. Hedo1

    Hedo1

    1,101
    13
    Oct 1, 2007
    SE Pennsylvania
    "Piece Petting is an obvious give away that I notice most often. Also hiking up a loose belt. I've made a lot of ccw's that way.
     
  10. RussP

    RussP Moderator

    33,409
    2,792
    Jan 23, 2003
    Central Virginia
    Well, then, this thread is not for you.

    This thread is for those who do care about being recognized as carrying a firearm and want tips and instruction on how best to achieve the "gray profile" we're discussing.

    Thanks for the input.
     
  11. 69Charger

    69Charger

    255
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    Jul 25, 2011
    Tacoma Wa
    I open carry and you would be surprised how un noticed I am.
    Really. :)
    Age
    Dress
    Demeanor
    ATTITUDE
    And I would actually enjoy talking to folks about my open carry and our laws concerning it. Educate and take the fear out of it. Or at least thats the plan.
    Dave
     
  12. Not really. You're noticed every time. Considered odd, too, I'll wager. And nobody missed that you had to scream ATTITUDE, either.

    Great thread, Sam Spade. You've given it good thought, and it's well presented and quite helpful. Thanks.
     
  13. ThreadKiller

    ThreadKiller Socialism Sucks

    717
    0
    May 5, 2004
    Nebraska
    In my case, the local Chief and his dept are known to have a certain "attitude" towards permit holders. I have dealt with some in the department who are downright hostile. (These dealings being online, not face to face.)

    Some will condemn my position I'm sure, but I simply do not want to call attention to myself. It could well be that live and in person the few hotheads I've encountered online would conduct themselves professionally but I'm going to do what I can to minimize the odds of any kind of encounter.

    My hair went steel blond some time ago, but I'll do my best to be "gray." :)
     
  14. barstoolguru

    barstoolguru texas proud

    2,434
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    Jan 10, 2011
    dallas, tx
    Very interesting, what you guys see as a game the common criminal does all the time. Some of my shady friends can spot undercover and off duty cops a mile away not to undercover cars. Sometimes avoidance seems to be a very good teacher also
     
  15. Triple7

    Triple7

    542
    1
    May 30, 2011
    Half the stuff mentioned in this thread is what I do when I carry my Iphone. I adjust it in my pocket, hold it when I run, check it to see if it's still there.
    My gun, I could care less if you know I have one. But no.... tacticool pants are ngtg. I wear shorts, flip flops and a tshirt 99% of the time I'm not at work.
     
  16. RussP

    RussP Moderator

    33,409
    2,792
    Jan 23, 2003
    Central Virginia
    I understand what you're saying. I've had the same experience.

    It may not be that you, we, are so much unnoticed as our age, dress, demeanor, and yes, ATTITUDE, desensitizes peoples' reactions to us.
    Perhaps Dave should have posted:
    Age
    Dress
    Demeanor
    ATTITUDE

    I agree. Attitude has a whole lot to do with how people perceive us. A big attitude, a small attitude, no attitude, people put their own spin on what the attitude you project means.
    And, now let's get back to Sam's original topic.
     
  17. 69Charger

    69Charger

    255
    0
    Jul 25, 2011
    Tacoma Wa

    You would have to walk in my shoes to understand my friend. :)
    Dave

    I did not mean to derail this thread.
    Good thread to ponder on. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2011
  18. redbaron007

    redbaron007 Some Dude Lifetime Member

    7,963
    43
    Jan 26, 2009
    SWMO
    Great thread Sam Spade!

    Interestingly you bring this up. This was a discussion with some of my LEO friends recently. They made a lot of the same points you did. However, one common theme came about from all of them; having to fondle your piece is generally the biggest give-a-way; either addressing it by placing your hand on it, moving it for comfort, checking to see if it is still there, making sure it's covered, etc. One of the LEO works part-time at a local theater (it does allow CCW) and he constantly picks up on the CCwr's most of the time.

    I was chatting with him one Friday night while he was working and it was very apparent, after listening to him, who was most likely carrying and not. It was great insight.

    My guesstimation would be 98% of the public wouldn’t be able to detect CCWrs; however, the other 2% would be the LEOs and BG scanning the area. After having a discussion with my LEO friends, my concern is the BG possibly identifying me; therefore, when I’m out, that is the perception I use to stay grey. It’s hard to not be identified by LEOs; some will be easier than others, however, I believe you can conceal beyond what a BG is looking at. Are there some who can still pick out a CCWr, yep. But I think that group is very small. The key is to look natural for the environment.

    Situational awareness is keen too; especially to id the BGs. :supergrin:


    :wavey:

    red
     
  19. RussP

    RussP Moderator

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    Central Virginia
    Thanks, Threadkiller.

    This thread is about how to achieve a "gray" presentation and maintain it.

    The topic is not about how people feel about those of us who prefer to be unnoticed.

    Any posts after this that are not on square topic will be deleted.

    Again, the topic is how to achieve and maintain "Condition Gray".
     
  20. RussP

    RussP Moderator

    33,409
    2,792
    Jan 23, 2003
    Central Virginia
    I knew I didn't state that properly. :rofl:

    Thanks for the help.