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"No one should have known" you CCW'd — "Being the Gray Man"

223K views 572 replies 274 participants last post by  DoctorStrange 
#1 ·
Best title I could come up with. We might also go with "Being the Gray Man". This musing is prompted by an exchange in another thread that went like this:

And while I've only made one arrest on the "no guns" thing, I've lost count of the people I've hooked who didn't bother with the "No Trespassing" sign.
I'm curious as to why this one arrest? If the person was carrying concealed no one should have know.
The fact is that most people's version of "concealed means concealed" relies heavily on others' lack of perception and on people generally being lost in their own little bubble. It relies far too heavily on that, IMO. Once you get into a world where someone's actually looking for concealed weapons, the average guy's odds of being "made" go up. And once you get into a situation where the attention is actually on you specifically, the odds skyrocket. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't happen much. I'm writing about when it *does*.

"Being Gray" means fading into the background of where you're moving. There is no one formula for this, because what works in a law office doesn't work in a garage. The one exception to this is the guy who dresses and carries himself like a janitor. That level of service worker can move about most anywhere and be like everyone else, or be overlooked by everyone else. Let me start by talking about what *isn't* gray.

  • Gun gear isn't grey. This means exposed Wilderness belts, cute little raven pins on your hat, as well as the more obvious Tshirts.
  • Political wear isn't grey. It invites attention from both people who share the advertised views and people who oppose the advertised views. In the case of 3per, Gasden or similar advertisements, it invites LE scrutiny of your hands and waistband. Sorry, guys. I'm writing about the world as it is, not as some would wish it.
  • Cover garments beyond an untucked polo or workshirt aren't grey in warm weather. The number of people wearing vests (or worse, photographer's vests) compared to the number of people who use them to cover a gun? C'mon.
  • 5-11s aren't gray (I'm alternating spellings because I can :cool: ) There are plenty of Colombia or similar cargo pants that are quite popular. 5-11s and clones, though, are cop clothes. Cops look at people who look like them, crooks look at people who look like cops.
  • "Loud" colors aren't gray. Red attracts the eye. Neon attracts the eye. Bright attracts the eye. Attracting the eye invites being remembered, being scrutinized, and having your CCW noticed.
  • Pocket clips (folding knives) and pouches aren't grey. The crook is looking for an easy score. Seeing the clip from a knife makes him look harder before he looks away. The cop on "scan" is looking for weapons, and seeing an indicator of one he'll look for others. Belt pouches mean electronics mean stuff to steal to the crook. Seeing one piece of temptation, he's ready to look for others.
  • Posture and actions different from the crowd isn't grey. Stay to the right, go with the flow, walk, don't run. Being alert and attentive is good for you. Having your head on a swivel is doing an imitation of a crook looking for witnesses. There's a fine line on that last.

Okay, that's a start. My goal is to discuss things you can do and avoid doing so as to avoid unwanted attention to your person. Specifically, I'm talking about avoiding attention that makes people end up noticing that bulge at your waist. There's lots more, but you can start by going to public places and watching people. Notice how many your attention is drawn to when they do something from that list.
 
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#302 ·
Yeah a guy with a Glock hat, photographer's vest, fannypack, and 5.11 pants is really not doing much to conceal anything. I don't think I have one piece of clothing with a firearms logo on it and I certainly don't have any 5.11 anything. Why someone wants to wear all those flashing lights that scream, "I have a gun!" is beyond me. Concealed is more than just not having a Desert Eagle strapped to your hip.
The only people who know that any of that stuff means you have a gun, other than the Glock hat, are shooters who really spend a lot of time doing gun stuff. To the average gangsta and even some hunters and cops, and certainly to Joe the Minivan Pilot, that stuff means nothing at all - just white folks with a bad fashion sense.
 
#303 · (Edited)
With 34 plus years as an FLEO I found this thread a very interesting read and have certainly have learned a few things. I realized long ago I will always stand out in a crowd due to my stature...6'5" 240lbs and my wife smiles just telling me no matter what I wear I look and carry myself like a veteran LEO. She the most honest person I know. :)
Honestly, I am guilty of wearing my 5.11 pants now and then. Very comfortable I might add. However, I do go to great lengths to make sure my concealed carry is concealed. I typically don't carry my B&C's off duty for a few personal reasons. It immidiately identifies me as an LEO in a hostile situation, not a good thing especially a hostage situation. I have never liked off duty LEO's badging their way through a situation..(personal and professional integrity issue). Just a core value I keep close. I am not saying that all LEO's practice this, but have seen plenty examples in my years and I just don't think it's right. It raises my suspicions about those who do. The badge is not a free pass. When I am off, the tools of my work i.e. duty weapon, B&C's stay home. I am not being paid, not on the clock, and WILL NOT be represented by my agency if I am involved in an off duty shooting. Collectively this is why I don't think I should have off duty privileges above and beyond the people I serve. Not to mention accidentally loosing your B&C's off duty is serious and embarrassing issue. It has never happened to me, but it happens. Also diminishing the inadvertent discovery of who I am by a street thug is not likely if ID is left at home.

I appreciate all the posts and what I have learned here. I think that flashing, imprinting or any indicators of your C/C is not wise in my humble opinion. I believe it removes one important advantage, the element of surprise. I always do my best to stay low key, as stealthy and unsuspecting as possible, but due to my stature it can be challenging at times. OP thanks for a great thread..FWIW...

Stay Safe!
 
#304 ·
My wife and I were visiting relatives yesterday and went to a small town fair. Walking toward us was a woman who allowed other people to come into close proximity to her. Now typically that may not be an issue. But what was an issue is that she was wearing a T-shirt with the word, Ok are you ready for this? Here it is: "iPak". Now she may have thought it funny, but typically people wearing something like that could very well have a firearm on them. So she was advertising to every bad-guy that she was carrying and that to obtain her firearm all they had to do was wait until she was not noticing, knock her on the back of the head with a collapsible batton knock her out and bad-guy has immediate gun... (ok I get it bad-guy would have to wait until she was out of a crowd of course).

I don't know, maybe it is because of the benefit of having grown up with a Grand Master in martial art that the idea of not telegraphing one's capabilities is just second nature. Which is why I think why on earth would any person ever be interested in this open-carry idea... all they are doing is advertising which firearm can be stolen later.


=
Yeah a guy with a Glock hat, photographer's vest, fannypack, and 5.11 pants is really not doing much to conceal anything. I don't think I have one piece of clothing with a firearms logo on it and I certainly don't have any 5.11 anything. Why someone wants to wear all those flashing lights that scream, "I have a gun!" is beyond me. Concealed is more than just not having a Desert Eagle strapped to your hip.
 
#305 · (Edited)
Hi Guys and Gals - Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for posting a lot of good info here. I am new to GlockTalk and am just really starting to explore all of the different forums and threads in here, pretty awesome. I applied for my CC permit this year finally and am very glad that I now have it. This particular thread has helped me concentrate on a few areas I found myself I guess deficient in after reading and thinking about what I was doing while carrying. I have been shooting for close to 50 years now and feel very comfortable with firearms in general. I have decided my G30S and G42 are my two favorite carry guns, which one just depending on the type of day and destination. I come out of the cross county pipeline construction area and so blue jeans and carhart T's are my normal mode of dress off work. Easy to conceal in this and not raise an eyebrow. I almost always wear my black Glock cap and it also does not raise any eyebrow. I do get more nods in the affirmative with quite a few folks when they see it and acknowledge it. I will continue to read the posts as they are made and continue to learn. Thanks again.
 
#306 ·
I am part of our church security team so most members know that we carry weapons but it never comes up in conversation - until last Sunday. A long time friend asked me if I was carrying a weapon and I said that the security team all carried concealed. He then asked me where it was - standing about 2-3 feet from me - and I asked him if he could see it. He looked really hard and said he had no idea. I then said that's the whole idea of concealed carry. Never did give him a direct answer, show where it was or what kind of weapon because we don't do show and tell. I carry a G26 in a Miami Classic II shoulder holster under a suit jacket and I guess that it is working pretty well for me.
 
#307 ·
All I'm saying is why go out of your way to appear as something you're not? I'm in my 40's. I have a gut that speaks to 19 years of marriage. I've worn a flat top hair cut for the last 22 years. All I've ever been is either military or LEO. It doesn't matter what I dress like, I'm going to seem to be exactly what I am. So what? I don't care if people think I might be a cop when I'm off. I just go about my business as usual. I could try and look like an accountant that's never even held a squirt gun in his hands, but what does that accomplish? Make me an easy target? Maybe, maybe not. If some cop killer is in the Circle C when I walk in and decides I look like an off duty cop and tries to kill me...oh well. About as likely as winning the lottery, but we can't control every situation.
I agree I am who I am and always will be I don't go looking at other peoples cloths or shoes. I learn how to be aware of my surroundens by been a parent always watching
 
#308 · (Edited)
:rofl: I only know of one guy who carries a man purse. He's been carrying one for so many years it has become part of him. And he CCWs all the time. Probably 24/7 for all I know. And of course, it's never in the man purse.
:rofl:That is a good one.

I never wear a gun logo etc.
 
#310 ·
I just have to say great thread. Thanks for the info. Gave me some extra things fo think about. I will use the ones I like. I still love my cargo shorts camouflage and none camouflage and my 5.11 style pants. But there was a lote of helpful info so thanks again. Now if Colorada didn't take so long to issue my ccw permit
 
#314 ·
You mean to say that if I am wearing a Glock cap that it automatically "un-grey"?? That's like saying wearing a cap that says "Body Inspector" a pervert.....

I like caps and they seem to be the norm here in Texas. I really don't pay that much attention to who the sponsor is. Am I wrong in my thinking?:alex:
 
#317 · (Edited)
You mean to say that if I am wearing a Glock cap that it automatically "un-grey"?? That's like saying wearing a cap that says "Body Inspector" a pervert.....

I like caps and they seem to be the norm here in Texas. I really don't pay that much attention to who the sponsor is. Am I wrong in my thinking?:alex:
Of course not. Lotsa people wear all kinds of caps.
I disagree.

We have a whole, and large, contingent of people who are against guns in this country. Some of them are just peaceful folk who don't want any trouble and, while they're not against the 2nd, they make the choice to not own any out of fear, perceived safety, you name it. I've known a ton of that type of people through a few careers.

It is these people one wants to be mixed in with as a 'grey.' You don't need to be picked out as one, but dropping into the background noise of personnas, as opposed to being at least a supporter of, of all things, a weapons manufacturer ... yeah, that isn't grey, and those of you with any common sense know it.
 
#318 · (Edited)
I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but if I've noticed anything is the most CCW holders worry way to much to much about printing, 5.11s etc. The average person will never notice. BGs are not as smart as they're given credit for, if they were they'd never go to jail. Believe it or not there have been stick up guy's that tried to rob places with an LEO in full uniform standing two feet behind them. Remember a little common sense goes a long way. Besides I can get away with it I have an AARP card and everyone knows us old guy's wear weird stuff. (By the way, how do you like my white dress shoes with the Velcro straps?)
 
#319 · (Edited)
If your wearing a fanny pack or a vest I and everybody around you assumes you have a gun.
That's why I never understood that cover garment requirement, nobody ever wore one of those before that unless they're fishing.

Wirh me it doesn't matter, apparently I look mil or le. Doesmt matter what I wear I hear it
 
#320 · (Edited)
I guess all I'm trying to say is that while I do agree with the idea of be gray I think the folks that carry concealed worry more than they should. We notice the fanny packs, 5.11s and vests because we carry concealed. It's like when you buy a new car. After you buy it, all of a sudden you start to see the same make and model all over the place. Or maybe some people are just a little more high strung than others?:dunno:
 
#322 · (Edited)
Once upon a time while eating lunch with a small group of people, the subject happened to turn to a news report about local gun violence. One of the young ladies at the table stated that if anything happened at her work she felt that several of the guys there "probably" had a gun and would stop any badguy. I asked her what made her think some of the guys she worked with carried a gun. She responded: You know, its how they dress and stuff.
 
#323 ·
I like being grey off duty. For ccw'ers, being grey isn't an excuse to act stupid and carry where posted. It is a way to control their day. Most people I've had to deal with that we're carrying where they shouldn't have been gave themselves away by their actions as much as their attire. That said, those sub-whackers that dress hoping to appear as law enforcement or a ninja, hoping somehow to get attention that the couldn't get elsewhere, are certainly amusing.
 
#324 ·
I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but if I've noticed anything is the most CCW holders worry way to much to much about printing, 5.11s etc. The average person will never notice. BGs are not as smart as they're given credit for, if they were they'd never go to jail. Believe it or not there have been stick up guy's that tried to rob places with an LEO in full uniform standing two feet behind them. Remember a little common sense goes a long way. Besides I can get away with it I have an AARP card and everyone knows us old guy's wear weird stuff. (By the way, how do you like my white dress shoes with the Velcro straps?)
Actually I don't think we give them enough credit. The only ones you see in jail are the ones who messed up or were dumb, you don't know about the millions they haven't caught.

I worried about printing alot, my shirt kept riding up and it was annoying. I don't go to extreme lengths like wearing a vest to hide it. I just pull my shirt back down each time it rides up...of course I don't know 100% of the time it rides up. Still trying to find the perfect way. But yes the average person will never know. Only those who do print hard core or know what clothing or things to look for will know.

Old people. You guys make me laugh, I walk into my lgs and there is always a crowd of old people just sitting around and talking. Makes me want to join in ha. (Not making fun of you guys in a rude manner)
 
#325 · (Edited)
I carry at work quite often. It is an exercise in not drawing attention to the fact, and can often be quite difficult. Most of my time is spent in a vehicle, at least during the winter plowing snow, so no great difficulty there. I find bending at the knees, and angling my body slightly when certain maneuvers are unavoidable works to my advantage. Summer carry while at work is often all but impossible, for me anyways. . .

Do you find carrying at work to be more challenging than, say, carrying out to dinner with friends?

This was an extremely interesting thread. Thank you to all who contributed.
 
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