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"No one should have known" you CCW'd — "Being the Gray Man"

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Sam Spade, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. I have worm bdu pants a lot for years because of comfort and I have had no problems yet. But the thing that matters most is to relax, make sure your weapon is hidden from view. I walk right up to leo and chat with the firearm on me.
    I saw a FBI agent getting gas one night and he was checking his firearm in his glass. I told him "nice gin"...:rofl:I told him I saw it when getting out of the car and that does seem to be the hardest part for most people. So when I get out of the car I check the area visually and check my attire.
  2. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

    Jan 23, 2003
    Central Virginia
    Let me clear this up.

    Like many aspects of carrying for self defense, the issue of "printing" must be viewed on a sliding scale using the effects of differing state laws, differing local customs, and last, the carrier's knowledge and understanding of these laws and customs.

    What is good and acceptable in one state, one jurisdiction, may not be so in others. The observation skill of the "reasonable person" also comes into play as that too differs from person to person.

    How much of the grip printing is enough to identify the object as a firearm? That again depends on the observation skills of the "reasonable person".

    The person carrying should know the law and local customs very, very well before testing another person's theory about what degree of "printing" is acceptable.

    As I've said before, what is good and right for one person may be deadly wrong for another.

    Everyone, make your, your choices wisely...
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012

  3. Schlitz


    May 10, 2011

    I would implore anyone reading stuff like these discussions to not take anything they've read here and treat it with value. Read, know, memorize, and be able to cite the local laws in your jurisdiction before walking out of the house with a gun - and do the same before traveling to a different jurisdiction. Ignorance of the law or "I read it on Glock Talk" won't save you when you have silver bracelets placed on you.
  4. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

    Jan 23, 2003
    Central Virginia
    If you are being sarcastic, you forgot a smilie of some kind.

    If you are serious, I'll have to vehemently disagree with your comment. As the regulars on Carry Issues know, over the last six years everyone has worked hard to encourage participation by people who have a high degree of knowledge about the various topics associated with carrying for self defense. They often have different viewpoints, but those viewpoints can and do apply to different members of the Carry community. We do always recommend people evaluate their own circumstances before applying what they read to their personal carry habits.

    If someones opinion or interpretation is wrong, such as running contrary to the law, or applying it will place someone else in danger or jeopardy, that is quickly pointed out.

    I do not know what factual basis you have for imploring "anyone reading stuff like these discussions to not take anything they've read here and treat it with value."

    If you'd like to tell me via PM, please do. But, let's not take this thread any further off track than it is.

    Let's all get back on topic.

    Oh, this part is good...
  5. Schlitz


    May 10, 2011
    Um, there was 0 sarcasm.

    I don't care how tight an internet community is, everyone is still anonymous (to an extent) and their information shared should be taken with a grain of salt. Knowing, reading the laws for yourself, and being able to cite them is on YOU.

    If you actually treat information read on an internet forum with value without doing any research yourself you are going to find yourself in trouble one day. These forums are great for debating and exchange information/sources of where info came from, but until you read the statutes of your jurisdiction yourself and any case law that applies you WILL find yourself in a hole.
  6. Magnus2131

    Magnus2131 Glock Gimp

    Aug 9, 2008
    Don't see too many people these days that don't have some kind of pocket clip.
    ucfgrad93 likes this.
  7. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    This is a great, informative thread!
  8. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

    Dec 23, 2007
    Under the bus
    I'm a little late to this party.

    If you see me in public you would never suspect that I carry, or that I'm even aware there are other people around me. My wife says that I look single minded and focused on what I'm doing. My supervisor at work swore I was oblivious to everything going on around me when we first worked together, now she knows better. I just seem to give off an air that I'm not paying attention. Conversations with people who don't know me can be awkward.

    It's actually caused me trouble my whole life, I've tried to learn to appear more engaged but it just doesn't work. The hell of it is I can usually tell you who is in my "zone" (varies with situation) and what they're doing, what they're wearing and a general description, and repeat the conversation we were having that you didn't think I was paying attention to.

    I think the reason that I'm so observant is that I'm very easy to startle. Ever since I can remember I've been one of those jumpy people that everyone thinks is so funny, you know the ones, ya sneak up on them and whisper "Boo" from ten feet behind them and they jump like you stuck a cattle prod in their backside? Yeah, thats me. What everyone else finds so amusing I hate with a passion. It happened so often that I just learned how to observe my surroundings, place myself where I can't be snuck up on from behind, or at least scan my blind spots to avoid the adrenaline dump and the fight or flight reaction I have to it. And I've been doing it for so long that (I'm told) I actually look like I'm completely in condition white. It still happens, couple of guys at work think its the height of humor to lay in wait for me, just to see me have a heart attack. Although they have learned to be out of arms reach when they do it.

    If you add that to how I dress, which most here would say "SLOB", I like sweatpants, their comfortable and I can move in them, I also like plain t-shirts in dark colors. My idea of playing dress up is 501's, and a solid color button up shirt with c'boy boots. I can make a G17 disappear. In the summer I have a Kangaroo shoulder rig, a MS VMII and a belly band for carry, in the winter I have all those plus a DeSantis shoulder rig that disappears in my heavy Columbia coat. Although I'm looking to replace that with an Under Taker from High Noon.

    I actually think I may be a bit too "grey".:faint:

    Ironically, the place where I would look like I am carrying is the one place I cannot. Our uniform consists of a Polo and black pants, and I found the ones that work best for me are the 5.11 covert khakis, add that to the Danner boots and the radio with the shoulder mic and I look like a regular mall ninja!!!:supergrin:
  9. TRPguy


    Dec 13, 2012
    It almost sound like you are suggesting not to carry a folding knife. Unless you are meaning to carry it all the way in the pocket?
  10. cgjane


    Nov 18, 2009
    This. Concealed is that, Concealed.

    It bugs the crap out of me when I see those WHO CLEARLY PRINT.

    Must be compensating for something.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  11. PaulTNaples


    Jan 10, 2013
    Concealment starts with making others think that there is nothing there when they look at you. Nothing to draw attention to yourself, your clothing, your attitude. In a former life, I had the occasion to use cammo sticks in various colors. The trick is not having a straight line. Nature abhors a straight line. With that in mind. Wear clothes that cause your weapon to blend. In my case, striped dress shirts when using an IWB. Suit or Sport jacket when using OWB (preferred) Don't engage strangers with your eyes. Look at them, not into them. Scan with your eyes, not your head. (practice) Melt into the crowd, don't stand out from the crowd.
  12. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Jan 16, 2005
    Nobody but CCWers and IDPA shooters and about half of cops recognize that any of that stuff indicates you have a gun. You can put Colt and S&W and anything else all over your 5.11 vest and non-shooters, including criminals, won't get it.
  13. Short Cut

    Short Cut PatrioticMember CLM

    Apr 28, 2002
    Above ground

    I make an effort to conceal effectively and don't wear obvious clues so I don't stand out. However I also agree with dnuggett quite a lot. Looking like you are paying attention imo says you are not an easy mark and are more likely to be passed by when a BG is looking for someone to rob. Maybe paying attention is an indicator for further scrutiny, but further scrutiny should yield no bulges or obvious signs and keep them guessing.
  14. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Feb 22, 2005
    Republic of Texas
    Might as well cut down on those "in the know" anyway. Just because they are fellow CCW or IDPA, doesn't meant that they should know either.

    One of the pieces of advice I got, that is also an internet meme, is: When in combat, try to look unimportant, the enemy may be low on ammunition.

    Do I have tacticool stuff. Yes. I even have pants that have tourniquets in the legs at two different levels. I bought them as a joke for under $20 on clearance, but they would work. Would I pull them out and put them on after the 19th zombie I killed at the front door? Maybe. Maybe even after the third one.

    It's OK to have tacti-cool stuff, and there is a proper place and time to wear that stuff. I wear multi-pocketed pants when out at the ranch hunting. No one looks twice, as most of us are active duty, Veterans or family members of veterans. No one blinks twice at an AR 10 or AR 15 either.

    But in the mall, let the security guard look the coolest.


    Especially if you have all that stuff because your favorite action figure has it.......

    . Google it.
  15. FloorPoor


    Jan 27, 2013
    Good thread, subscribed.
  16. TXPamIAm


    Feb 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  17. Comedian


    Aug 3, 2010
    How about if everything am wearing is gray?
  18. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

    Dec 25, 1999
    Rebel South
    I wonder if the same rule applies if a shoplifter puts a toaster under their shirt in Texas.
  19. GLOCK19FTW


    Dec 16, 2012
    I have a Team GLOCK visor that I occasionally wear in public (whenever I decide to "do" my hair that day, at least)

    I'm sure people know what it is/what it stands for/what it means, but I'm not worried about it.

    If anything it just lets the bad guys know for a fact you aren't the perfect victim they are hoping for, without them having to "size you up" and guess if you're carrying.

    In public, my carry position is only accessible to me (about halfway between 1 and 2-o-clock) - I just don't feel comfortable having it at 3-o-clock (directly on my hip) where someone could attempt to grab it from behind. Hell no.. not happening.

    I am glad that printing isn't illegal in this state though, because just today as I was exiting the movie store, the wind was blowing like crazy.

    I believe TWC said it was 15-20 MPH winds.

    It pushed my shirt to the point where you could see the entire outline of the pistol.

    It was 68 degrees today, so obviously I only wore a t-shirt. Lil bit harder to completely conceal that way.

    I'd hate to lose my permit because of the wind. lol
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  20. FireMission


    Mar 11, 2013
    Central GA
    I'm not grey, and I don't really care. I'm a veteran, and proud of it. As such, I often wear t-shirts/caps/jackets with flags/unit crests/slogans or what-have-you. I also wear "tacticool" pants and boots fairly often... not only do I like their utility, they are generally pretty comfortable to me. I think if you REALLY believe that folks are that observant of your dress, you are seriously overestimating the powers of observation of most folks around you. Now, granted, I live in a military town, so much of my apparel blends in better, but even when I haven't, people just don't notice. "I" often notice, but I'm looking. I've seen people open carry in public... I don't care, but I usually observe the people around, and in general, either no one notices, or if they do, they just don't care.

    My main focus of self-defense is against your garden-variety thug. I highly doubt they would notice if I was wearing a Glock cap. Now, if I have to go up against some ex-Spetsnaz black-ops badguys, it might be an issue, but in the real world... not so much. I've been CCing for 15 years now and have never had anyone so much as raise an eyebrow at me.