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Newbie, pls help me buy 1st gun

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by LexaDoig, Aug 9, 2004.

  1. LexaDoig


    Aug 8, 2004
    Hey guys It's great to see good Philippine-related threads here so I decided to join in ;f I'm new to guns and I'm planning to get one soon... I don't wanna spend too much though...

    My choices have boiled to these:

    -Bersa Thunder 380
    -FEG PPK clone
    -Norinco Model 59 in 380 (makarov clone)
    -Daewoo DP51
    -FEG or Arcus hipower clone

    The Bersa in blue is 17k at Hahn, they have stock, I just called them now.

    Can you help me with the prices of those other pieces? I'm in the province, and the shops I've called don't seem to carry those...


    PS Tuloy ba gunshow sa Megamall sa November???
  2. batangueno

    batangueno Shock Resist

    Oct 1, 2002
    ;F to the BOG.

    My suggestion based on your list would be the Bersa Thunder 380. Horge, can explain further. :)

  3. jundeleon


    Aug 31, 2003
    You did not mention the gun's intended use: carry or home defense or sporting purposes/competition.

    For carry, the bersa 380 would be the ideal choice among the guns you listed. Its light concealable and easy to shoot. The caliber is a respectable self defense round.

    For home defense and occassional range sessions, I think there are better choices for your budget. An armscor/RIA/Norinco 1911 in 45acp is an example.
  4. mikey177

    mikey177 Remember

    Jan 28, 2003
    About two months ago, the Daewoo DP51 was available at Urban Industrial Corp. in EDSA Shangri-la. I'm also in the province so I can't say if they have any right now, but you can try calling them at (02) 638-3255 or 632-1760.

    Oh, and welcome to the BoG.

    I second jundeleon's suggestion to identify the intended use of the gun before you narrow down your choices.
  5. mc_oliver


    Feb 21, 2002
    For a carry gun, I'd suggest you spend a little more and get a 2nd hand glock 26 or a Taurus PT-111. The 9mm offers a lot more options for defensive purposes with better performance compared to the 380 in the same package. ;) But that's just me.

    Btw, welcome to BOGs.
  6. Lexadoig,

    I'm also for the Bersa ,considering your list, but at that price range I would also consider buying a 1911A1 Norinco (Milspec).The latter has better stopping power (.45cal.), reliable out of the box, many options for customization, economical, and durable.Also, because of 1911's flat sides it's easily concealable.Just me.

    Welcome to Band of Glockers.:)

    Hermo Gut;)
  7. 9MX

    9MX Rei!

    Sep 29, 2003
    for IPSC competitions:

    Production: CZ85/75, Jericho, Glock 17/19
    Standard: Armscor/CZ/STI/SVI

    for carry: any of the glocks i guess

    if you're all set on the bersa .380, just wait for gunshow part 2. PBD has them also, and they have better customer svc than Hahn, IMHO
  8. jasonub


    Sep 28, 2003
    to keep it simple just get a armscor 1911 45 acp, it was selling at 9995 per pistol. maybe you can get the same price on the next gun show.

    its a no brainer if budget dictates ill buy the armscor for home and carry weapon
  9. cznayr

    cznayr Dis-member

    Jun 14, 2004
    If you're interested in Armscor, I can help you acquire one.. No strings attached .. My kinakapatid is from Armscor, he could arrange for everything.. License is at 6,500.. i don't know if that's cheap.. but you don't worry about anything.. just provide the picture..
  10. Alexii

    Alexii Janeway Forever

    Nov 14, 2001
    Delta Quadrant
    I agree. It's almost a steal when you consider the price. Armscor must've made a killing last gun show.
  11. casmot

    casmot Re membered

    I have a DP51 which a used to carry during the PTC days. I find it to be a very reliable pistol. It would fire any rounds even those rejected by a CZ or glock. The only problem with a DP51 is the availablity of spare parts. Even the manufacture "Daewoo Precision Industries" won't answer your inquiries about spare parts. ;1
  12. deenoh


    Feb 3, 2003
    If you're considering getting a Norinco, you might want to try getting one from us at Weapons Systems Corporation :)
  13. jundeleon


    Aug 31, 2003
    For a basic 1911, which is a better choice Norinco or Armscor?
  14. LexaDoig


    Aug 8, 2004
    Thanks for the welcome ;c

    Yeah I forgot to mention the intended purpose of the gun. It's gonna be for weekend plinking and car/home defense. I may also decide to carry it...

    I'm not thinking about competition shooting yet. I've got my hands full already...

    I've been PMing horge over at He's the reason the Bersa is on top of my list ;f

    I'm having second thoughts about Armscor, they don't exactly have a reputation for reliability (very important). Gotta agree though that 10k for their 1911 is a steal! BTW does this 10k gun accept hicap mags? Can I shoot this on competitions? I might decide to get the Bersa now then get this 10k Armscor come gunshow on November...

    @mikey177, I called up the number you posted, they do have the Daewoo DP51 @ 22k. Interesting... Thanks!
  15. 9MX

    9MX Rei!

    Sep 29, 2003
    have the armscor tuned by a reputable gunsmith and it should be ok. i think there are several shooters who only had cosmetic mods on their 1911s and they use it to compete. as per mc_o, first internal part to be replaced is the sear.

    i believe the 10k armscor pistol is a single stack unit. had it been a double stack, i probably would have bought one;f
  16. julianz

    julianz toxic master

    Sep 24, 2003
    sand castle
    i second batangueno Bersa T 380 from your list or you might want to expand your list madame pang mas mahuhusay.
  17. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    almost home
    Regarding the 1911 firesale (P9,999) at Armscor last Gun Show...

    The 1911's priced at P9,999 were Charles Daly rejects (NOT overruns), with surface pits and shallow voids due to bad casting, or else scratches and dings due to mishandling. Some of these flaws can be very minor and difficult to see, and those are the ones you want. These sale pistols came with only one mag included. Still, that's around P7,000 less than normal retail, if you can eat the flaws.

    The Armscor GI series 1911's still out for sale are said by many to be among the last of their line: I was told that the GI model is being phased out (no longer being manufactured as an 'Armscor'), in an attempt to eliminate redundancy/confusion with Twin Pines' RIA, and only because Armscor handles US marketing for Twin Pines.

    Just what I've been told.
    Maybe those with better sources can comment.

    1911 vs. Bersa Thunder 380?
    Here's my take, based on only 1,100 rounds through my Thunder 380, and a mere 7-800 rounds though various rental 1911's, as well as some idle analysis. well... a lot of idle analysis

    The BERSA points faster and easier than a 1911. With less muzzle flip, it allows more rapid rate of effective fire. Double- and even triple-taps can be executed, on target. It transitions from target to target faster, and its lighter weight is probably less hernia-inducing than an all-steel 1911 carry piece. It has very simple construction and so long as the ammo isn't undercharged and you don't limpwrist, will run flawlessly for the first 200-300 rounds. Beyond that, cartridge grit can start to retard slide cycling, but then if you're in a defense situation that requires more than 200-300 rounds, you need to pray more than to spray. The BERSA is a cartridge-brand omnivore. Virtually any .380 cartridge will feed reliably, although the rounder profile bullets will probably save from any wear on the aluminium frame's ramp. Magazines pack 7 or 9 rounds. Ultimate life-span may be 15 to 20 thousand rounds.

    The 1911 almost always tends to shoot low, but this can be overcome with sight-tweaking and practice. The recoil is more of a rearwards shove with muzzle rise, as opposed to the rearwards thwap of a low bore-axis blowback (such as the Bersa), making for more comfortable shooting over hundreds of rounds. The 1911 has more accessories available for customizing your gun, and almost any gunsmith is familiar with it. The ramp angle on any locking breech firearm is going to be steep, and this increases the chances of a stem-bind or other FTF. Magazines pack 7 or 8 rounds (hardcore enthusiasts point out that malfunctions increase in number with the 8-rounders). Ultimate life-span runs into the hundreds of thousands rounds.

    The .45 ACP cartridge is probably the most effective man-stopping handgun cartridge out there. Any more power starts to take away too much controllability for me, excepting gas guns. To my mind the cartridge was made for war, to be carried by persons constantly looking to find and efficiently kill a known enemy.

    The .380 ACP is more of a gentleman's caliber --compromising stopping power with controllability and concealability. It was made for peacetime, to be carried by persons constantly looking to avoid violence from unknown enemies.

    Both cartridges were designed by John Moses Browning, designer as well of the 1911 pistol. Browning himself apparently considered both the .45 and the .380 excessive for civilian carry, and favored the .32 cartridge instead.


    Go to PB Dionisio Firing Range and rent their Bersa Thunder 380 --apparently the only Thunder 380 for rent in Luzon. Rent their 1911 too. Shoot 100 rounds through each, at a silhouette at 4 meters, and judge.

    I wager you'll find that you shoot tighter groups with the 1911, slowfire. You actually will get recognizable 'groups' with a 1911. A BERSA at first use, merely lets you keep your shots on the target, but minute differences between your trigger-pulls spell into a larger scatter of shots.

    If you speed up your ROF during that first session, to the adrenal levels of a real-life, multiple-target situation, the BERSA will likely surpass the 1911 in terms of shots on-target over time (particularly because of transitioning). However, as good as that description might make the BERSA out to be, constant training will improve your skill with the 1911 a very long way, compared to how far you can improve with the BERSA, with its off-center trigger bar. I believe that if you invest the time, a 1911 becomes easier to use, control and transition than a Thunder 380.

    I've thus far found NOTHING quite like a well-tuned 1911 trigger --less work to keep the muzzle from twitching during trigger pull, which is crucial towards marksmanship

    My recommendation is to
    get the Thunder 380 and a 1911.
    That way everyone is happy ;)


    PS: At PB Dionisio Range, tell Ian what you're trying to do and she'll set you up right. Cute is one of the RO's there. Do NOT (I repeat, DO NOT) allow Cute to demonstrate the Pinoy-Mexican no-holster concealed-carry technique on any pistol you intend to handle afterwards.
  18. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter Moderator

    Nov 21, 2002
    Dr. B. Eye
    ;f ;f ;f

    how much are the bersa .380's going for now?

    batangueno is selling his browning hi-power and colt python, you should consider those 2 collectibles also
  19. cznayr

    cznayr Dis-member

    Jun 14, 2004
    I agree with eyecutter, consider the browning of batangueno ;)
  20. revo


    Apr 27, 2003
    Although I don't reside in Pinas, my suggestion is to buy a gun
    that you can easily get parts for.

    Thus I vote for a 1911 Armscor of good quality.