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New to AR's /Bushmaster M4 or Colt 6920?

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by oldguynewglock, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. ipscshooter

    ipscshooter Mostly IDPA now

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    Bushmaster's may be over gassed, but I'm not entirely sure it's to deal with Russian ghetto ammo. My Colts and DD run fine on Tula, etc. for practice.

    Keeping the brass cased stuff for other uses. :supergrin:
     
  2. Matthew Courtney

    Matthew Courtney Instructor #298

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  3. Roger1079

    Roger1079

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    I never had any issues with my Bushmaster. The only reason I sold it was I got a great deal on an LWRC and didnt really care for the fixed carry handle on the Bushmaster. Unless you are going to be using it for hunting, home defense, or competition shooting, the Bushmaster will likely be perfectly fine for range use. Odds are the "junk" Bushmaster along with any of the other lesser tier brands will likely be more accurate than your shooting capabilities. I know mine was. From a rest, I could practically send rounds through a hole the size of a quarter at 100 yards which I couldn't do holding the rifle. For $100 more though, Colt is the obvious choice. I am not a Colt fanboy and have never owned one and can only base my opinions on everything I have read, so take it for what it's worth. Colt definitely builds a quality product, however they are greatly overrated by the "If it isnt a Colt, it is garbage" crowd.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  4. M&P Guy

    M&P Guy

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    I own both. Based upon experience of thousands of rounds through each; Colt, no questions. Everything from quality of assembly, to pins and springs leaves no doubt the Colt is a better use of hard earned money.
     
  5. jb1911

    jb1911

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  6. pat701

    pat701

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  7. Wade-19

    Wade-19

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    Funny I just saw this thread . I was at a Wal-Mart a couple hours from home last week and they had two Colt 6920 MOEs . I almost grabbed one, but I had the old Bushmaster at home . Well after thinking about it all week, I threw the Bushmaster on Armslist and sold it today. I hope the Wal-Marts by me start getting Colts in soon
     
  8. TunaFisherman

    TunaFisherman Halibut Hunter

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    :rofl: wow... Do some research. Colt m4 quality is battle proven. That is a post by someone who knows zero about Colt rifles.
    A simple online research will prove this. There are better rifles then Colt but Colt is the only true Mil Spec rifle.
    Now Mil Spec only means they meet the the quality the Military will use.
    Consistant quality control.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  9. BleedNOrange

    BleedNOrange Go Vols

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    Took a rifle class a few weeks back. If your rifle wont run you get sent home and have to reschedule. approx 1200 rounds in 3 days. 2 got sent home. 1 was a Colt and the other was a Spikes Tactical. My Bushmaster ran fine as did several brand new Windham arms rifles(basically same thing). I dont love or hate either. If a gun shoots and will run I will use it. My AR is 12 yrs old and has had thousands of rounds thru it with no troubles other than a bad round here and there. Including all the steel cased stuff.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  10. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    I am not sure why people seem to panic over a non-staked gas key. I have been shooting AR's since the 1980s and not a one had a staked anything. I have never experienced a single problem with a gas key even with my (2) Bushmaster shorties (circa 1999 ) that have more than 8k rounds through each of them. I will admit that I bought a couple nickel boron (staked key) BCG's but I doubt I will ever have to use them. Is a staked key better than and non-staked key?.. sure. Do I worry about it... nah


    As far as Colt or Bushy goes.. I would buy which ever is the best price and not worry about it. If it got as clost as $50 more for the Colt, I would probably buy the Colt but I wouldn't for $100 more. I had a Colt Sporter back in the day that was a lemon but honestly, it was probably the butchered up oem low-cap mags. I still have a couple of those mags, I should post a pic just so people can laugh at how horrible mags were back then.
     
  11. K. Foster

    K. Foster

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    I know it’s a little off topic but I’m curious as to what class that was. I’ve seen instructors go to great lengths to get people’s guns running or lend them guns. When I was teaching, I’ve let people use my guns. As a last resort, let them observe and participate as much as possible. Ejecting people from class is ridiculous and should not even be an option!
     
  12. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

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    A staked gas key (and castle nut, for that matter) is cheap insurance.

    Imagine buying a new car, only to find out the guy that built the engine didn't use a torque wrench on the bolts that hold it together, and they just guessed how tight they needed to be. Maybe they got it right, and maybe the engine will blow the entire top cover off 5 miles past the end of the warranty.

    Not staking the key bolts is just lazy. It takes a few moments to do correctly, even with a basic tool (much less done in a jig with a machine designed to do it), and it's a cheap way to ensure that your bolts are much less likely to back out. It doesn't take much for the gas key to start leaking, and render your AR useless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  13. K. Foster

    K. Foster

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    I’ve seen gas key bolts vibrate loose with less than 2,000 rounds. If you’ve shot 16,000 though 2 guns, you’ve been lucky.

    Staking the gas key is not a big deal. Put the BCG in a vise. Hit the sides of the key with a hammer and punch until some metal is pushed up against the bolts. Takes about 10 minutes.
    I would not be afraid to buy a rifle with an un-staked key, if it had other features that I wanted. My issue is that it’s a simple but necessary step. If companies are not doing that, what else are they not doing.
     
  14. mjkeat

    mjkeat

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    I don't know why people seem to panic when they pay money for half-assed merchandise.

    Like someone mentioned if a manufacturer won't stake a gas key it should throw up red flags. What other corners have they cut, what is their true motive (profit?, quality?).

    But then again lets just lay them out on a table, nobody could tell the difference anyway.
     
  15. BleedNOrange

    BleedNOrange Go Vols

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    Not ridiculous at all. Its a course for patrol officers. If a gun wont run it takes away from the rest of the class. If the gunsmith is having to constantly fix it and others are waiting. Loaning a gun isnt an option either. We have to provide our own gun that will be used and it needs to run 100%. The dept. isnt going to give the loaner gun to the officer so its up to him/her to have a fully operational weapon. Watching also does little to help since they will just have to return at a later date to get the proper courses of fire in.
    If it was a paid course I would agree with you but in this case its not and the officer only has to reschedule.
     
  16. Matthew Courtney

    Matthew Courtney Instructor #298

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    So the rifle flunks the class because one of the objectives is to test the rifle while training and testing the student simultaneously? If your rifle flunks, you flunk, too? It sounds to me that your department has a very ineffective cost management model for rifle training. It may seem to some beancounter to be more efficient to do it that way, but their are huge secondary expenses to conducting training, and they will be incurring those expenses over and over.
     
  17. BleedNOrange

    BleedNOrange Go Vols

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    We get paid to take the class just as if we were on duty. They shift days off etc. I see what you are saying but having an officer take the class twice wouldnt seem very cost effective either. Even if the officer passes the class with a loaner gun they would still have to return with their gun.
     
  18. mjkeat

    mjkeat

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    Slowing down the other shooters so the lame duck can keep up is counter productive and not realistic. The rest end up not getting the training they need. These guys aren't training to see who can knit the cutest baby blanket. In this game if your carbine fails, you fail. Why should training take on another face? It's probably cheaper to conduct quality training than to pay out benefits to widows.
     
  19. KalashniKEV

    KalashniKEV

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    Whoa, dude. That's DYNAMIC.
     
  20. Matthew Courtney

    Matthew Courtney Instructor #298

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    My point was mostly that making officers prove that their rifle is worthy is asinine. It would be much cheaper to simply require that officers use rifles from an approved list. If the qualification is required anually, it would be cheaper in the long run for the department to just supply the rifles. The taxpayers are paying for more training time and training than is actually being utilized.

    Training people and equipment provanance are two separate things. Mixing then creates huge inefficiencies. Their are also false assumptions being made with statistics. If a rifle has a bolt failure during a class, the likelyhood of a subsequent bolt failure is no different going forward than it was before the initial failure, but when the guy gets a new bolt, he has to begin the class from the beginning. Also, the fact that a bolt makes it through the class does not indicate that it is less likely to fail in the future. It just means that the bolt did not fail during the class.