close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

new jersey question

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by igor, Jan 19, 2012.


  1. igor

    igor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    254
    0
    Location:
    near Annapolis Maryland
    i was speaking to another retired officer who is going to see family in nj. he is under the impression that the hollow point issue is still a problem in nj even with the passage of the new leosa bill in 2011.
    anyone from jersey have any knowledge on this?
    i gave him enpough hornady critical defense to fill a couple of mags just in case.
    i wqas under impression that federal law trumpted state law on this issue
    what say you all
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. 4949shooter

    4949shooter
    Expand Collapse
    1. The JBT's

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    9,642
    274
    Location:
    New Jersey Republik
    The NJSP website still says its retired officers may not carry hollowpoints:

    http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_ret.html

    I would err on the side of caution. Also, the Hornady Critical defense mostly likely would be illegal to carry as well, under the NJ definitions of hollowpoint, and expanding "dum dum" bullets as listed in the statute.

    Maybe some of the other Jersey guys will chime in as well.
     

  3. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2000
    2,312
    27
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    And the 2010 update to the FEDERAL LAW allows the carrying, by both actve AND retired law enforcement officers, ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the NFA laws.

    In other words, hollow points are 100% legal for carry by active and retired officers in NJ. Its a FEDERAL LAW!
     
  4. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2000
    2,312
    27
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    LEOSA does trump the state law. Hope NJ has lots of money, because I would sue them for every penny if they ever tried to prosecute someone covered under LEOSA.
     
  5. Ducowti

    Ducowti
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    887
    4
    Location:
    NY
    This. While 4949's point of caution is well-made, and while there's always a possibility you could encounter someone ignorant/irreverent of the law retired guys carrying HPs are doing so within the LEOSA.
     
  6. igor

    igor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    254
    0
    Location:
    near Annapolis Maryland
    i have carried critical defense and federal expanding full metel jacket several times in nj woth no problems but no one even knew i was armed. driving a reasonable speed , which is lower trhan most jersey drivers seemed to work for me.
    but federal law is and does trump nj state lsaw and i would really like to be the one to sue,but since i go there so rarely i dont think that will happen
     
  7. Stuntman22

    Stuntman22
    Expand Collapse
    Retired

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    119
    0
    I was told by the NJSP Firearms unit that Hollowpoints are arrestable but you would not get convicted. What ever that means I dont know. Who wants to deal with that crap?
    I carry the Hornaday Critical Defense. They are hollow points that are filled with someting?
    I cant see how this would effect an out of state officer? If you carry what you qualify with?
    We carried Winchester Hollowpoints while active.
    Gun laws in NJ are Hyrogliphics that the NJSP cant even figure them out.
    Tell you freind to have his family move....

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fC2iu3CTPc"]The Never-ending Saga of Firearms Ownership in New Jersey - Full Hi-Res version - YouTube[/ame]

    Watch this an tell me what you think?

    Common sense (which is not too comon) is a good guide. While active I've stopped many cops and it was always questions on thier Depts salary and benifits and how they like where they work, etc... It always ended with an exchange of phone numbers and a handshake. I dont think you will have a problem unless you are holding up a liquor store or something. The last thing on a cops mind is if you are carrying more than 15 rounds or hollowpoints. We, just like all other cops like "Good" guns.
     
    #7 Stuntman22, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  8. Geek0902

    Geek0902
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    32
    0
    I live in NJ. Until the Federal Government insists on the supremacy of Federal Law, the 2nd Amendment does not apply within the state.

    When going to NJ you should conduct yourself as though you are going to a very corrupt foreign country. (Also true for NY and a few other places.) If you are serious about becoming a test case, just walk into the NJ State Police, pull out a carry permit from another state, as well as a concealed weapon, and announce your intentions. I am sure the state would be happy to oblige.
     
  9. igor

    igor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    254
    0
    Location:
    near Annapolis Maryland
    iwatched the video, what a novel concept, it is too easy for the political class to understand
     
  10. igor

    igor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    254
    0
    Location:
    near Annapolis Maryland
    and yu are correct i when i stopped another police wel we always spoke of pensions salaries , the real important stuff. usually i wqas abl;e to give them ideas on where to eat or get good seafood, like i said the important stuff
     
  11. Stuntman22

    Stuntman22
    Expand Collapse
    Retired

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    119
    0

    I think he was talking about an LEO under HR218 carying hollowpoints. Not Joe Citizen with a CCW.
    But then again, I could be wrong
     
  12. blueiron

    blueiron
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    11,145
    8

    Please...
     
  13. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2000
    2,312
    27
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The talk of hollowpoints in NJ is in reference to active and retired LEO's who are carrying under the provisions of LEOSA.

    LEOSA is a Federal Law that NJ must accept. They have no option in this case. Hollowpoints are a provision of LEOSA and again, NJ must accept this. They have no choice. NJ does NOT get to pick and choose what provisions of LEOSA they will accept.
     
  14. Geek0902

    Geek0902
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    32
    0
    Qwerty
     
    #14 Geek0902, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  15. Geek0902

    Geek0902
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    32
    0
    As I said, if you want to be a test case and fight this up to SCOTUS, I am sure the state will oblige and you'll be proven correct.
     
    #15 Geek0902, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  16. Officer X

    Officer X
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    1,338
    3
    Location:
    The Garden State
    The ammo an LEO has in his gun would not be something I would care about.

    The only time I could see this coming into play is if you had to use your gun and an overzealous prosecutor wanted to push it.
     
  17. 4949shooter

    4949shooter
    Expand Collapse
    1. The JBT's

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    9,642
    274
    Location:
    New Jersey Republik
    Exactly.
     
  18. Bodyarmorguy

    Bodyarmorguy
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    1,030
    1
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    Not looking to argue, just thinking out loud.....

    I cannot find a copy of HR218 that specifically says anything about ammunition, on either side of the argument. It does address machine guns, silencers and other destructive devices.

    http://www.nps.gov/uspp/hr218final2.pdf

    http://www.policelawblog.com/blog/2010/07/full-copy-of-leosa-and-hr-218.html

    The FOP and the General Counsel for the NY PBA have both written opinions or statements that the LEOSA includes amendments that permit the carrying of any ammunition not prohibited by federal law, though I cannot locate thos amendments.

    http://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf

    http://www.nycpba.org/gc/hr218.html

    An interesting test case for sure
     
  19. Sheepdog689

    Sheepdog689
    Expand Collapse
    NRA Life Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    362
    12
    Here you go: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title18/pdf/USCODE-2010-title18-partI-chap44-sec926B.pdf

    § 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

    (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

    (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
    (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

    (c) As used in this section, the term ‘‘qualified law enforcement officer’’ means an employee of a governmental agency who—
    (1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
    (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
    (3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers;
    (4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
    (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

    (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

    (e) As used in this section, the term ‘‘firearm’’—
    (1) except as provided in this subsection, has the same meaning as in section 921 of this title;
    (2) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act; and
    (3) does not include—
    (A) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
    (B) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
    (C) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).
    (f) For the purposes of this section, a law enforcement
    officer of the Amtrak Police Department, a law enforcement officer of the Federal Reserve, or a law enforcement or police officer of the executive branch of the Federal Government qualifies as an employee of a governmental agency who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and
    has statutory powers of arrest.
    (Added Pub. L. 108–277, § 2(a), July 22, 2004, 118
    Stat. 865; amended Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(a), (b),
    Oct. 12, 2010, 124 Stat. 2855.)
    REFERENCES IN TEXT
    The National Firearms Act, referred to in subsec. (e),
    is classified generally to chapter 53 (§ 5801 et seq.) of
    Title 26, Internal Revenue Code. See section 5849 of
    Title 26. Section 5845 of the Act is classified to section
    5845 of Title 26.
    AMENDMENTS
    2010—Subsec. (c)(3). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(a)(1), inserted
    ‘‘which could result in suspension or loss of police powers’’
    after ‘‘agency’’.
    Subsec. (e). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(b), added subsec. (e)
    and struck out former subsec. (e) which read as follows:
    ‘‘As used in this section, the term ‘firearm’ does not include—
    ‘‘(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of
    the National Firearms Act);
    ‘‘(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921
    of this title); and
    ‘‘(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921
    of this title).’’
    Subsec. (f). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(a)(2), added subsec. (f).

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title18/pdf/USCODE-2010-title18-partI-chap44-sec926C.pdf

    § 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers
    (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

    (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
    (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.
    (c) As used in this section, the term ‘‘qualified retired law enforcement officer’’ means an individual who—
    (1) separated from service in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer;
    (2) before such separation, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;
    (3)(A) before such separation, served as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 10 years or more; or
    (B) separated from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;
    (4) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers, as determined by the former agency of the individual, the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;
    (5)(A) has not been officially found by a qualified medical professional employed by the agency to be unqualified for reasons relating to mental health and as a result of this finding will not be issued the photographic identification as described in subsection (d)(1); or
    (B) has not entered into an agreement with the agency from which the individual is separating from service in which that individual acknowledges he or she is not qualified under this section for reasons relating to mental health and for those reasons will not receive or accept the photographic identification as described in subsection (d)(1);
    (6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    (7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
    (d) The identification required by this subsection is—
    (1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual separated from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training as established by the agency to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
    (2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual separated from service as a law enforcement officer; and
    (B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides or by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State that indicates that the individual has, not less than 1 year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State or a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State to have met—
    (I) the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training, as established by the State, to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
    (II) if the State has not established such standards, standards set by any law enforcement agency within that State to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.
    (e) As used in this section—
    (1) the term ‘‘firearm’’—

    (A) except as provided in this paragraph, has the same meaning as in section 921 of this title;
    (B) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act; and
    (C) does not include—
    (i) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
    (ii) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
    (iii) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
    (2) the term ‘‘service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer’’ includes service as a law enforcement officer of the Amtrak Police Department, service as a law enforcement officer of the Federal Reserve, or service as a law enforcement or police officer of the executive branch of the Federal Government.
    (Added Pub. L. 108–277, § 3(a), July 22, 2004, 118
    Stat. 866; amended Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c), Oct. 12,
    2010, 124 Stat. 2855.)

    REFERENCES IN TEXT
    The National Firearms Act, referred to in subsec.
    (e)(1)(B), (C)(i), is classified generally to chapter 53
    (§ 5801 et seq.) of Title 26, Internal Revenue Code. See
    section 5849 of Title 26. Section 5845 of such Act is classified
    to section 5845 of Title 26.
    AMENDMENTS
    2010—Subsec. (c)(1). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(1)(A), substituted
    ‘‘separated from service’’ for ‘‘retired’’ and
    struck out ‘‘, other than for reasons of mental instability’’
    after ‘‘officer’’.
    Subsec. (c)(2). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(1)(B), substituted
    ‘‘separation’’ for ‘‘retirement’’.
    Subsec. (c)(3)(A). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(1)(C)(i), substituted ‘‘separation, served as a law enforcement officer
    for an aggregate of 10 years or more’’ for ‘‘retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more’’.
    Subsec. (c)(4). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(1)(D), added par.
    (4) and struck out former par. (4) which read as follows:
    ‘‘has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement
    plan of the agency;’’.
    Subsec. (c)(5). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(1)(E), added par.
    (5) and struck out former par. (5) which read as follows:
    ‘‘during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at
    the expense of the individual, the State’s standards for
    training and qualification for active law enforcement
    officers to carry firearms;’’.
    Subsec. (d)(1). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(2)(A), substituted
    ‘‘separated’’ for ‘‘retired’’ and ‘‘to meet the active duty
    standards for qualification in firearms training as established
    by the agency to carry a firearm of the same
    type as the concealed firearm’’ for ‘‘to meet the standards
    established by the agency for training and qualification
    for active law enforcement officers to carry a
    firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm’’.
    Subsec. (d)(2)(A). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(2)(B)(i), substituted
    ‘‘separated’’ for ‘‘retired’’.
    Subsec. (d)(2)(B). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(2)(B)(ii), substituted
    ‘‘or by a certified firearms instructor that is
    qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for
    active duty officers within that State that indicates
    that the individual has, not less than 1 year before the
    date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm,
    been tested or otherwise found by the State or a certified
    firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a
    firearms qualification test for active duty officers
    within that State to have met—’’ for ‘‘that indicates
    that the individual has, not less recently than one year
    before the date the individual is carrying the concealed
    firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to
    meet the standards established by the State for training
    and qualification for active law enforcement officers
    to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed
    firearm.’’ and added cls. (I) and (II).
    Subsec. (e). Pub. L. 111–272, § 2(c)(3), added subsec. (e)
    and struck out former subsec. (e) which read as follows:
    ‘‘As used in this section, the term ‘firearm’ does not include—
    ‘‘(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of
    the National Firearms Act);
    ‘‘(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
    ‘‘(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).’’
     
    #19 Sheepdog689, Mar 31, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  20. Hack

    Hack
    Expand Collapse
    Crazy CO
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    18,122
    4
    Location:
    Kansas, near the bison.
    If I had to carry under the rules of combat, (no hollow points, full metal jacket), I would carry a 45ACP minimum.

    Then of course for good measure a 10 mm that is subject to the UN conventions concerning WMD ...
     
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
Traveling to New Jersey Carry Issues Mar 5, 2015
New Guy Jersey Introduction Forum Nov 19, 2012
New Jersey guys Cop Talk Mar 7, 2012
New Jersey Girl The Lighter Side Feb 28, 2004
New Jersey The Lighter Side May 28, 2003