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New 9MM Reloader

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Don Sarkisian, May 6, 2010.


  1. Don Sarkisian

    Don Sarkisian
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    For several years I have reloaded;.308,22-250;.223,.45ACP;44 Rem.Mag and 38 special with Redding dies and an RCBS Rockchucker press.But this 9MM stuff is different.My once fired brass comes from my G17 Gen3 and has no sigificant buldge with factory barrel.
    One of the 1st lessions I learned the hard way is not to bell case mouths or crimp them.Doing both of these operations on Federal or Winchester brass I am able with sufficient hand pressure force 115 grain XTP's further into the case.Eliminating both operations I am absolutely unable to force bullets further into the case.The only way I could accomplish any reasonable degree of set back was to lighty hammer on the back of the case with a rubber hammer (no primer).
    The result of avoiding these two operations must provide greater case neck tension on that portion of the seated bullet.
    I went cheapo route on the 9MM dies to start and was ready to can them and purchase a set of Reddings because of the set back I was finding at first.I gave the Lee's a second chance and threw away the expander die and eliminated the taper crimp and no set back.
    I don't feel I have found anything new.
     

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  2. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
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    ^^^^^^^^^^

    Introducing Mr. Road Less Traveled.

    ;)

    You sure seem to have found a way to make something simple very hard. If your getting setback with a Lee sizers send it back. It's diffective or your doing something else wrong.
     

  3. Don Sarkisian

    Don Sarkisian
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    The Lee sizer is indeed doing its job perfectly according to all dimensions recorded B4 sizing,after sizing and bullet seating.I am convinced that case neck flaring and crimping was loosing case neck tension.While not a Lee fan I can load acceptable 9MM ammo using the Lee sizer and seater I have as verified using the case gauge,the Glock barrel and caliper measurements.Lee's are not Redding's but I cannot condem then for the job they do providing I do what is correct.
     
  4. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak
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    I use Lee dies almost exclusively(including 9mm), and have no problem w/ the expander die and the FCD.

    Have you shot these loads yet?

    IGF
     
  5. XDRoX

    XDRoX
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    If you think this was the fault of Lee Dies, I don't understand why you don't think other brands would not cause this as well:dunno:
    Could it be that you were over flaring and under crimping?
     
    #5 XDRoX, May 6, 2010
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  6. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak
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    That was kinda my thought.

    IGF
     
  7. D. Manley

    D. Manley
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    To be to the point, something's wrong. Expanding the case mouth and/or, crimping should not impact your case tension. If you want to fight through the load process by skipping the expanding/crimping steps by all means, have at it. That said, its a lot easier and results are equally good when the dies are used as designed. You either have a defective or wrong expander or oversized resizing die -or- you have something improperly adjusted that is creating the lack of case tension.
     
  8. Don Sarkisian

    Don Sarkisian
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    I have both over and under flaired and crimped.And yes I have fired these loads.It seems there are others on this and other forums that avoid flairing and crimping when loading 9MM using jacketed bullets having a base radius.And with success.
     
  9. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
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    Thats just impossible. The sizing die creates the neck tension for the bullet and prevents setback. So if it's working right (and your doing the other stuff right) you will not have setback issues. So you need to look at the process and find out whats not working right.
     
  10. Don Sarkisian

    Don Sarkisian
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    I guess I should not have posted this issue since it seems its impossible.

    Thanks,
    Don
     
  11. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak
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    I don't think it's impossible, I think there is something else that's FUBAR in your process, and is making you experience this. You need to look at your process, adjustments, etc.

    I read a lot of other reloading forums, and rarely see someone advocate not using a flaring die. Occasionally, yes, but FAR from the majority.

    IGF
     
  12. dudel

    dudel
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    Exactly what is imposible? Lots of people load 9mm, so it's not impossible.
     
  13. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
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    It's only impossible if you choose to not re-examine your process and current beliefs. Something does not add up. You just need to examine each step. IF like you say the sizer is sizing small enough to prevent setback then that leaves over expanding or over crimping. So it's not impossible, it's actually rather simple.

    Edit: I got the "impossible" pun. Yes, it's impossible for the sizer to work, for you to flare a small amount and crimp to just remove the flare and still have setback issues. One of those process has to be wrong.
     
    #13 Colorado4Wheel, May 6, 2010
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  14. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
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    Also, check your seating die. Back it out a extra 1/2 turn to be sure it's not crimping and ruining case tension. Are you seating and crimping at the same time?
     
  15. Don Sarkisian

    Don Sarkisian
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    I am not crimping these loads.My Lee 9MM seating die has its lock ring fixed well above case rim and locktighted in place with 272 high strength. I could not tell you how many thousand rounds of .45ACP I loaded and shot through 1911's,an XD and a Glock with no crimp and no set back.Now if one is loading lead then absolutely gotta flair and crimp.But you can also slighty over crimp on lead and loose hoop tension on the bullet also.

    Just a 73 year ole dummy trying to do the best he can.

    Thanks all for your input.
     
  16. XDRoX

    XDRoX
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    Is it possible that you got a bad batch of bullets? Smaller than they should be?
     
  17. Don Sarkisian

    Don Sarkisian
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    They are Hornady 115 Grain XTP's and measure consistantly at 0.355"

    Thanks,
    Don
     
  18. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
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    Your not following what I am saying. Crimp does not prevent setback. What I am saying is if you have setback something is wrong with your sizer, or some other part of the process. It's that basic. Your unwilling to look at what those things can/could be so that kinda leaves your stuck with doing things the only way you know how I guess.
     
  19. sdrnavy

    sdrnavy
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    I have lee dies, I never have to expand the case mouth. i have never had a problem. But I never load lead ! I only load FMJ. The only time that my Glock 21 has failed me, it is when i have loaded lead. I usually load "Frontier" CMJ bullets, they load very easily and cost the same as lead. They shoot as good as the Winchester FMJ that I have loaded.
     
    #19 sdrnavy, May 6, 2010
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  20. Don Sarkisian

    Don Sarkisian
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    Sir,nothing is wrong with the Lee sizer.My unflaired and uncrimpd loads cannot be set back by hand and I mean as hard as I can push.I can do it with a small rubber hammer.I can also get 0.002" to 0.005" set back by slingshot chambering up to six times.Many factory loads won't stand up to that.As soon as I get Mom out of her part "D" donut hole I will spend the $100 bucks on a set of Reddings but I will betcha ya that I throw away their flaring dye also.You don't needem with a good single stage set up and a sizing die of any make that does what its supposed to do.Now if I was loading with a progressive like a Dillon (had one-gave it away) then flair and crimp would be a must.

    Did I mention that I hand chamfer the inside of my cases.Don't think I did.

    Best,
    Don
     
    #20 Don Sarkisian, May 6, 2010
    Last edited: May 6, 2010