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Need help to avoid breaking the law

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by crazyasian1, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. crazyasian1

    crazyasian1

    550
    3
    Mar 17, 2010
    JBA
    I obviously want to avoid breaking or circumventing the straw purchase law here (Virginia) so any help is appreciated.

    Friend wants a gun. Friend is FORMER military not retired, so not entitled to shop at the Base Exchange. Also a current and legal gun owner.

    I'm active duty military. Exchange has a Gen4 G19 currently for $520 OTD, going on sale next Friday.

    Can I legally purchase this firearm for my friend or is that a straw purchase?

    I'm assuming if I purchase this and accept money/gifts/services before or after it's considered a straw purchase.

    However if I purchase the firearm and make it a BONA FIDE gift, accepting no money/gifts/services in return, its perfectly legal, right?
     
  2. dhgeyer

    dhgeyer

    493
    5
    Jul 15, 2011
    You really should be asking this of a lawyer.
     


  3. JDennis

    JDennis

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    3
    Aug 9, 2012
    Des Moines
    All I have to say about it is no. Don't do it. No matter whether it is legal or not (no idea, need a lawyer for that) It is not worth the risk of making a mistake! You love your guns, imagine having them all gone. Besides have your friend search around. 520 for a gen 4 isnt hard to beat if you look around. Maybe a extra 20-30 for ffl fee. Way better than taking a chance.
     
  4. crazyasian1

    crazyasian1

    550
    3
    Mar 17, 2010
    JBA
    But we have so many GT lawyers here...

    Ok probably... Not going to do it if it skirts the law, however with the wealth of real world experience available here I just wanted to gauge the consensus for my interpretation of the law.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  5. ctious

    ctious

    554
    1
    Dec 12, 2011
    Straw purchase only applies if the person you get it for by law is.not allowed to buy a gun.himself. if the person is allowed by law to buy themselves and u get it for them.it is not a illegal straw purchase
     
  6. 1108VA

    1108VA

    98
    0
    Apr 4, 2009
    Central Virginia
    First of all, as active military, you can get the gun for about $398. before taxes at one of the law enforcement supply stores in Va. Secondly, do not buy that gun for your buddy. I have heard of people being prosecuted for the exact situation you are describing. As a matter of fact, it was a deputy who bought the gun for his civilian friend. He ended up loosing his job and was also charged criminally with the straw purchase.
     
  7. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr DirtyThirty fan CLM

    36,121
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    Nov 24, 2005
    Troy
    Correct,............
     
  8. SiberianErik

    SiberianErik

    1,269
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    Feb 9, 2009
    I just went thru this for my FIL. I love him dearly and he likes his shotguns. He has about 100 firearms and always wanted a tacticool SG so I bought his a Benelli Super 90. It was a PITA for me to buy it and put it in his name w/o him finding out as it was a early X-Mas gift.
     
  9. crazyasian1

    crazyasian1

    550
    3
    Mar 17, 2010
    JBA
    $398?!?!? Where?!? Is that the "blue label" program?
     
  10. jbailey8

    jbailey8

    496
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Roanoke, VA
    I spoke with a dealer at the Roanoke gun show and her said that he could give me military pricing for an M&P with my VA ID card. Maybe he could find a Glock dealer that could do the same?
     
  11. kodiakpb

    kodiakpb

    2,185
    21
    Jan 12, 2012
    Just so you know S&W has a similar program as Glock blue label. LE/MIL price for a FS M&P9 is $398 (std sights) or $455 with night sights. Then there's also the $50 mail in rebate on top of that which expires in DEC if I remember correctly.

    As with Glock, not all LE dealers are created equal. Some charge more than true price. (ie $420 instead of $398).
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  12. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    15,139
    2,278
    Feb 19, 2007
    Texas
    What part of the law gives you this standard?

    To the best of my knowledge the law never says anything about an exception.

    Can you provide a reference to the law where it says this would not be a straw purchase? Because on its face it is one. Unless it really is a gift. Then it is OK
    :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  13. Smokin45

    Smokin45

    500
    68
    Oct 15, 2012
    Dirty Duval, FL
    $520 OTD is a sale price?!?! Military can get them around here for $100 less than that!
     
  14. kodiakpb

    kodiakpb

    2,185
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    Jan 12, 2012
    All the PX/BX does is sell at retail without sales tax. You rarely find good deals.
     
  15. As I understand the laws here in Virginia, if you purchase the gun with your own money, then sell it to him, it is a legal private sale. I did this once with my wife and it was perfectly legal. But to be certain, I suggest you to to opencarry.org and pose this question in the Virginia forum. You'll get an answer pretty quick.

    The other option is to check with Quantico Arms in Woodbridge. They give good prices to military and police. They also have a store in Q-Town on the Quantico Marine base.

    BTW, we live close to each other so PM me if you need any further help.
     
  16. stolenphot0

    stolenphot0 RTF2 Addict

    5,430
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    Jan 26, 2012
    Kettering, OH
    Unless its a gift, then it's a straw purchase.

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

    Page 166 - Section 15

    excerpt

    the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth.
     
  17. You can purchase a firearm with your own funds then sell it to another party who may legally possess a firearm. That is a private sale. On the other hand, if the party gives you money to make the purchase and/or they may not legally possess a firearm, you would be committing a crime. Personally, I would be very reluctant to purchase a firearm with the intent of selling it to someone ion a prearranged agreement, even if everything was done above board.

    How many firearms over the years have you sold in a private sale? I know I have sold a bunch of them and all were perfectly legal transactions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  18. stolenphot0

    stolenphot0 RTF2 Addict

    5,430
    31
    Jan 26, 2012
    Kettering, OH
    In this situation he wants to buy a gun for a friend so friend can get sale price at PX. This would be a straw purchase. This law is very grey, I'm not saying it's not but it's all about intent. He would be lying on form 4473 when he takes money from his friend for the purchase. Buying today and selling weeks later because you don't like it is different, because of your intent.

    I know it's stupid, but it's the way its written.
     

  19. If it's on the internet is must be true.

    Call it what you will, it's still circumventing the regulation. Do what you think is right.
     
  20. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    Jan 3, 2010
    S FL

    In the instructions for item 11.a on page 4 of the 4473 form examples of the actual buyer and gifts are discussed http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf