Need Help Finding the Proper G19 Rear to Match TFO Front

Discussion in 'Sights, Optics and Lasers' started by papasan, Oct 2, 2012.


  1. howdy.

    I bought a TFO set (TG131GT1) for my Glock 19 just for the front sight. it's currently mounted with an AmeriGlo rear (GL-405L), I like the setup but unfortunately the rear sight is too low (or front sight is too high) and the gun is shooting low if I line it up properly.

    anyone with experience or have a caliper and a set of the TFO sights mounted that could measure the rears? would a GL-406L be a better match or do I need to go even higher? there doesn't seem to be much info about using the TFO fronts with different rears, either that or my Google-fu sucks this morning.

    I'm tempted to just ditch the setup and go with a packaged set like the Hacks or Defoor but would be nice to get this TFO frankenstein working.

    thanks.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

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    #1 papasan, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
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  3. I take it when you aim at the bull, your rounds are impacting low.

    Did you shoot this gun to POA before the sight change? If yes, tell us how far away the target was and how low you were shooting. I saw a formula to calculate sight height on another forum. I'll see if I can find it.
     

  4. Here is the post, quoted from MarlinOwners.com:

    I'm subscribed to this thread, so just post up your info and I can give you a hand with the calculations.
     
    #3 Breadman03, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  5. well, that's pretty interesting. I have a few pics archived from my cell phone, will need to dig them out and see if I can figure it out.

    still, would be interesting to know what the technical/theoretical 25y zero rear is for the TFO front. as I'm a fairly new shooter, not yet 100% confident in my ability, if I figured it out this way there maybe some lingering doubt if I'm still not shooting bulls after a swap.

    another forum suggested this tool, similar results I would imagine...
    http://www.ameriglo.net/sights/calculator
     
    #4 papasan, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  6. TFO = .195 high front sight (measured from top of slide to the top of the sight), needs at least .286 - .294 rear total height (measured from the bottom of the dovetail to the top of the sight shoulders).

    I got a .272 high http://www.ameriglo.net/sites/default/files/gl405pra.jpg (Ameriglo 406 PRA), so I'm .015 low, and I've been shooting a few inches low at 25 yards. (Previously at 6" groups at 25 yards with TFOs front & rear). I tested at 3 - 10 yards and it was consistently a little low there too. You are shooting the GL-205L which is .256 high. That puts you low at a difference of .030 That's double my deficit, so I can imagine you'd be hitting quite low (given your grip, stance, distance, and ammo load have been consistent).

    The only Ameriglos that would truly work with the TFO front are: (All are .287 high, but only .150 wide)
    http://www.ameriglo.net/sites/default/files/gl-600 series lime.jpg - Rear of the CAPS set
    http://www.southernpoliceequipment.com/shop/default.asp?h=b&b=26&id=1317 - GTR-730
    http://www.southernpoliceequipment.com/shop/default.asp?h=b&b=26&id=1328 - GL-402 (discontinued)

    Love the TFO, but it has come lose, even with loctite (blue) and I'm seriously considering whether or not the fiber optic bonus will really come in all that helpful for my needs. If I found myself doing more outdoor competition stuff, It would rock. But as an indoor defensive handgun set-up for low light, it's really the wider .180 rear notch that allows easy and fast front sight acquisition from the silhouette of a tac-light that is key. Under those conditions, I've tested and tested, and it's the very rare light condition that I can even make use of the tritium. It's all about the sight picture, sights silhouetted by your light source, and consistent weapon presentation (especially for home defense & CQB).

    That brings up a point though,...will a .015 low rear sight really matter that much at close distances? Probably not. But, given that under stress, the best you can hope for is the worst you do in training, I'd want my weapon system to be as dialed-in as possible leaving the very least room for mechanical error (that's why we have Glock's in the first place, no?).

    The TFO front has great features, but the rear, I find too busy and the notch too narrow for my liking.
    Ameriglo, Warren, Trij, all make great "u" type notches for faster targeting.
    It's just been a tough search to find a set-up that does it all.
    Even using a Trijicon RMR would have its drawbacks.

    I'm considering switching it all out to this: (Ameriglo GL-301 or 304 Green/Lime Green front & green or yellow rear) ProGlo-iDot
    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-AMGGL-301
    http://www.pistolaccents.com/assets/images/ameriglo_pro_i_dot_glock.jpg
    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1419675
    http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/mrpinkbullets/IMG-20110516-00026a.jpg
    http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/2010/10/05/handgun-sight-review-ameriglo-i-dot-pro/

    This set up seems like it would offer:
    1. Fast target acquisition with a larger rear notch
    2. Clear silhouette of the sight picture when using a tac-light at night
    3. Brightly colored front sight for daylight conditions, or when shooting against a darker-colored target
    4. Tritium just in case the twilight conditions are present
    5. "Straight-8" type dot sighting for vertical alignment if needed

    Too bad Ameriglo doesn't do the Tritium-Fiber-Optic combo. Probably a patent issue.
     
    #5 D.R.D., Oct 17, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  7. Another plus for Ameriglo is the flat front face of the rear site that lends itself to easily running single hand racking and clearing manipulations off your belt, holster, or a table. Rear sights with slants (Heinie, Warren, Truglo, Novak) make that much more difficult. In fact Rob Pincus just designed a new rear sight with Ameriglo for that very purpose called the "Claw" http://clawrearsight.com/
     
    #6 D.R.D., Oct 17, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  8. #7 D.R.D., Oct 17, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  9. link is't working.


    so I got tired of playing the guessing game and decided to get another AmeriGlo front that would match the rear. went with the CAP green/green front. on a related note I have a set of Glock low TFOs for sale (; here's a pic for size comparison...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Wow, that CAPS sight pops out! Nicely done.
     
  11. in reduced and low/no light the CAP does seem quicker. in full light the fiber is impossible to beat though, it glows like an angry eye.
     
  12. awesome, thanks!
     
  13. Here's where I am now in daylight (focus on front sight):
    [​IMG]

    In low light with tac light on (focus on threat/lighted area):
    http://i.imgur.com/P6MhO.jpg

    This is on the way:
    http://www.arotek.com/default.aspx?page=ProductView&Part=124
    I'm gonna try it out, and paint the surrounding portion of the front TFO face with day-glow green nail-polish.

    If that doesn't work then I'll do this:
    Ameriglo GL-304 (Green/Lime Green tritium ProGlo front, with yellow tritium iDot rear)
    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-AMGGL-301

    I'll post pics along as it progresses.
     
  14. Here is the painted TFO with green nail polish - we'll see if it stays on.
    (rear site focus):
    [​IMG]
    (front site focus):
    [​IMG]
    The front site is actually brighter in daylight, plus the fiber optic shines in the middle. It wasn't easy to capture it with the camera (plus it was against a white/neutral background). With overhead / ambient light, you can't miss it. Kinda like the CAPS. Plus, it also is fiber optic, and tritium for twilight acquisition. We'll see if it still shoots low with the aro-tek 'ghost' ring (not actually a ghost ring, more like the hexsite).
     
    #14 D.R.D., Oct 28, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012
  15. Here is the front Truglo TFO with the Aro-tek ring rear (http://www.arotek.com/default.aspx?page=ProductView&Part=124)

    The face around the tritium fiber-optic is painted with day-glow green nail polish and a clear sealant. The top of the fiber optic is secured with clear loctite epoxy.

    [​IMG]

    Front sight focus (florescent light indoors):
    [​IMG]
    Target-focus indoors:
    [​IMG]

    Front sight focus (daylight):
    [​IMG]
    Target-focus (daylight):
    [​IMG]

    Close to what it will actually look like with target focus, awoken in the middle of night, without glasses or contacts on, shaky, with a x200A beam:
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Side view - incredibly easy to do one hand racking manipulations off of any surface with such a high rear ring. Plus, it's rounded and won't snag on anything, and still fit in any holster...and requires no batteries.
    [​IMG]

    Range report to come...
    (if the front sight doesn't work, I'll scrap the TFO all together and put this on (painted green too, of course ;-)
    http://www.arotek.com/default.aspx?page=ProductView&Part=205

    ...and if that isn't the ticket, then I'll just go back to the original idea of:
    Ameriglo GL-304 (Green/Lime Green tritium ProGlo front, with yellow tritium iDot rear)
    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-AMGGL-301
     
  17. Long overdue range report....

    I only shot at 21', but considered this an adequate first test since this is for a home defense weapon. The furthest possible engagement in my home would be about 25 yards in the extreme, but close quarters is more likely.

    I shot both 40S&W and 9mm (I have a Lone Wolf drop-in barrel), both using CCI Speer Gold-Dot JHP defensive ammo.

    Initially with steady accurate fire (not a defensive scenario), it was pretty easy to maintain a 2-3" group. When playing with sight picture (center at top of front sight, center behind front sight, front sight focus, target focus, etc)...the group grew to about 5" plus a flyer or two with rapid double taps with the 40S&W recoil.

    I'm gonna try again at an indoor range from 3 yards out to 25 yards in low light with the taclight on and see what I can reproduce. If it remains like this, I'll leave it as is. If not, I might replace the front sight with an Arotek.
     
  18. Update: I started to notice groups 4-6"+ low at 15+ yards. As I suspected, the TFO front sight is a bit too high (.195). So, when I put the target on top of the front sight, and place the top of the front sight in the center of the rear aperture, the barrel was actually canted slightly downward.

    I replaced the front TFO with an Amriglo ProGlo Square (.165)
    http://www.opticsplanet.com/ameriglo-proglo-style-night-sights-front-sights-only-for-glocks.html

    This is a bit shorter, yet still wide enough. At 7-15 yards, it was dead on. However, at 20+ it was apparent, that tight groups are challenging to hold since there is a lot of space on either side of the front sight - even with shoulders (rear notch) aligned.

    Here's what it looks like now:
    i.imgur.com/qNjmG2d.jpg
    i.imgur.com/Sbnjujv.jpg

    I have a different camera now, so it was harder to take these pics. I wasn't able to get a clear one with the top of the front sight aligned with the two shoulders of the rear aperture, but you get the idea. It's actually brighter than the tfo was in the dark, against colored backgrounds, and in daylight - just no fiber-optic.

    Next, I need to test this set up again in low light with the x200 on. After that, I'll run an IDPA match or the like, and see if they are quick enough. If no-go, I might try replacing the with this one again (from above), since the proglo square is the correct height for it
    i.imgur.com/uAr2s.jpg
     
    #19 D.R.D., Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015

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