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Need Ergo Handle for LnL AP, & What's up with The High Road

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by PsychoKnight, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    Keeps crashing everytime I try to go there to look for the only guy I've seen do a serious handle mod for the LnL AP. Did somebody forget to pay the yearly domain fee?

    That Gavin dude at Ultimate Reloader seems to no longer be active on his own commercial site, and everything is Out of Stock.

    I don't think a regular bench vice is going to do it. How do I bend this 5/8" piece of steel as close as possible to the threads - without messing up the threads? I could use a 1"x4' gas pipe I keep around for leverage, but its holding the short end of the rod (2") where I want it bent that's difficult.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  2. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

    6,147
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    Mar 6, 2003
    Lynnwood, WA
    If you had a bench strong enough. You could get a couple of spare nuts 2or 3 to cover the threads completely. Hold that side on the vice. Heat with a propane torch and bend away. Gonna take some muscle but it could be done. Personally I would just get one of Adams billard ball handles.
     


  3. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    25,798
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    Jan 26, 2001
    Indiana
    I never thought of trying to bend the current "straight" handle.

    There were some threads a while ago, of someone taking the Dillon 550/650 roller handle, and cutting off the bottom inch or so, and re-threading it for the Hornady. I'd do that, before attempting to bend the straight handle.

    Do you know what the threads are on the LNL handle?

    IGF
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  4. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    Neither Adam's balls nor the Dillon handle will move the handle grip forward the 6-8" I would like. If you look at Ultimate Reloader's handle, the grip is located all the way to the rear of the press when its in the resting position. This is advantageous in that when the handle is pushed all the way down the grip no longer ends up near the knees, more at the waist position. I would have to raise the press so that the dies at at eye level while standing to get the bottom stroke to end at the waist in order to not have to bend my knees and back to finish the stroke. I like the height of the press now that its on a strongmount. I don't like that the handle continues to swing so low.

    Also, I got rid of my bench and vice. I don't think it would have worked because the vice was on a swiveling mount, and there would be no way to tighten it enough to withstand the bending of a 5/8" rod.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  5. g29guy

    g29guy

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    Dec 29, 2010
    Georgia
    Just a thought. Cut the 2" off and thread the little piece and the lever. Now you could screw both into a 15 30 or 45 degree fitting. Not pretty but practical, and only $1.77. Home improvement store will thread the handle for free but the small piece wont fit into the threading machine.:dunno:
    View attachment 216082
     
  6. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

    461
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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    Can somebody with an LCT tell me the diameter of the handle shaft? Ultimate reloader has the LCT version of his bent handle in stock.

    What's the diameter of the LCT handle?
     
  7. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    Thought about that, but nothing in the pipe industry is size for threaded, 5/8" outer diameter pipe. Even 1/2" piping has a 3/4" outer diameter, and plumbing/home improvement shops only have threading dies in standardized plumbing diameters.

    But now you have me thinking in a different direction. I can use pipe threading either over or under sized as well. Undersized means I need to cut additional threads on brass pipe and just use washers and nuts on both sides of the toggle. Oversized means I need to drill and tap the toggle to the next standard pipe size higher.
    This is a 3/8" inner diameter brass tube with 1/2" threads. I'll see if there are 45deg elbows avail. At least brass is pretty each to cut threads into.
    If I can get 1/2" threaded elbows, I can also use 1/2" rods and control my shape through the length of the lower and upper sections, and not have to bend anything.
    Thanks for the seeder thoughts!
    [​IMG]

    Still want to know about the LCT handle thickness, though, so somebody please check for me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  8. shotgunred

    shotgunred local trouble maker

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    Washington (the state)
    Well if it was me I would put a sleeve over the threads. Mark the area I want to bend. Heat it up to a nice cherry in my forge and then bend it in my hydraulic pipe bender. But then not everyone has a pipe bender or a forge.
     
  9. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    Why do you need to bend the handle. Why not just tap it for a roller and be done with it?
     
  10. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    The original post referenced the Ultimate Reloader's handle for the LnL AP: that is my goal - more the shape of the handle shaft than the roller - but a ball tip can't be used with the shape of the shaft. Are you familiar with the U.R. line of handles?


    Not interested in a roller - I actually prefer the ball.

    By ergonomic I mean the the distance of the downstroke, ending near the waist rather than the knees.

    Take a look at the "Ultimate Reloader Hornady Handles" videos and photos - a google search will show a couple dozen demo's.

    Please, someone -
    Who's got an LCT and can check the fractional width of the handle?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  11. Bob2223

    Bob2223 Jack's buddy!

    1,232
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    Mar 26, 2009
    Spencer Indiana
    I bent mine in the reese hitch on my truck, had to jump up and down on it but it worked.
    I wanted the ball closer to the press and more forward like you wanting.
    After a couple trys it's right where I want it, when the ram is at the top of the stroke the ball is higher so no bending over.
    Not a good picture but you can see the press handle on the right compared to the stock one on the left.

    [​IMG]

    Bob
     
  12. StaTiK

    StaTiK Get Some

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    Jan 22, 2002
    SE Michigan
    I saw the same post and I bookmarked it (but you're right, THR hasn't been working lately). It was an impressive display of craftsmanship. I wish I had his schematic to duplicate it exactly.

    I remember seeing that he had a standard bench vise but he lined it with what looked to be L-shaped aluminum plates. I would probably use wooden blocks.

    -StaTiK-
     
  13. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

    10,016
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    Apr 14, 2009
    Conifer, CO
    Don't know if these pictures will help you or not. The first one give a pretty good comparison between the angle of UltimateLoader's roller handle on the right and the stock handle on the left. The angle reduces the travel of the down stroke by about 6 or 7 inches.
    [​IMG]

    These are all old pictures, before the case feeders and bullet feeder but as you can see in this picture I used to switch the angles handle between machines. (I never did like the 'thin; roller it came with and replaced it with a thicker, more comfortable one.)
    [​IMG]

    Here's a straight on picture for you so you can get a better idea of the angle.
    [​IMG]

    I've since added Adam's balls to both of the stock handles and switch everything out depending on the condition of my back. There are times when the angled handle is more comfortable and times the duty falls to the stock handle works better. (The added size of the pool ball is always more comfortable when it comes to my arthritic hands.
    [​IMG]

    Hope this helps at least a little.


    Jack
     
  14. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,937
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    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    I would just raise the press to the right height. UR presses are all to low. It's obvious if you watch the videos. He has to bend over to finish the stroke. He designed a handle to fix his bench problem rather then raise the press.

    Base of the press should be about 47 inch" off the floor for a 5'10" person. Standing. If on a stool it's going to be a little lower. Maybe 45". Add about 1 inch for every 2 inch's of the users height.

    That's all ballpark kinda stuff.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  15. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    SoCal - SGV
    "He designed a handle to fix his bench problem rather then raise the press." How do you know that it isn't the other way around: people keep trying to raise the press when in fact, press makers have a poor handle design? Ergocentrism: when you want everything in the world to work properly for your own physical comfort. My ergo may not be your ergo. But I do appreciate the thoughtful thoughts - . . . I think.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  16. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    Thanks a ton, Jack.
    That's the general idea. And I agree that the chrome grip is not ergonomic, it was designed to be fingered, not palmed, and for this reason its use has not migrated out of control wheel of industrial machines.

    One advantage I can integrate as I shape my handle is to take advantage of the press being mounted on a strongmount - I don't need to bend located so high. Its location was to get around the bench. Since not no bench next to the press, I can make the bend right above the toggle, so I am able to keep a straight line on the handle rod from the linkage to the ball. My handle might have a 15deg tilt, as opposed to the 25deg tilt I guestimate on the U. Reloader handle.

    I'm going to try Bob223's idea. I gotta hitch. I can jump.

    Thanks for your help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  17. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    Hitch Receiver ! ! !

    Dang - why didn't I think of it. So simple.

    I'm going to do exactly what you did, but I will mount the handle upside down. If you use a strongmount, you can also invert your handle and get an additional 2" or so, plus raises the press closer to mid-torso height.

    You saved me long nights of great anguish, Bob - thanks!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  18. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Nov 2, 2006
    CO

    It's pretty obvious to see that his press is too low. Bending over to load is a bad idea for your back.

    You should try the press at the right height before solving the issue in some unique fashion. Correct height is different for different people. Putting the ball at the height of the shoulder or your eyes about 18 inch's off the bench makes operating the handle easier.

    I used a LnL at that height and it was perfect. Just like the 550 before it and the 650 after it.

    Of course perhaps you got something else going on.
     
  19. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    Thanks for everyone's contributions - I'm finally done with it.

    LnL AP with the world's only handle bent forward at the toggle link.
    [​IMG]
    Handle ball goes all the way behind the press, but the shaft is not nearly as severe an angle as others, due to my painstaking bending trauma just two inches from the end of the rod.

    I like the Horizontal Shaft ending position
    [​IMG]
    . . . right at the hip bone; ouw it feels good not to bend. I get a 7-1/2" rise out of this. (need a better adverb)

    And, after everyone's suggestion, I decided mine was the best, for me. I decided not to stress over what the primers go into - it d'un matta.

    Flaming Primer Deflector
    [​IMG]

    Okay -all done - thanks again to everybody who helped, Bob, Bob, Jack, and our buddy, The Steve.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  20. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight

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    Sep 30, 2006
    SoCal - SGV
    Naw. I don't like the bench at 4' high. Its gotta be useful for something other than a single function pedestal for a press.

    I think all handles should be shaped like this. Just wait, in 15 - 20 years it'll all be this way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2011