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Need assistance from Bisaya speakers

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by horge, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    I don't want to influence the response, so how would you answer,
    in phrase or sentence form, and in Bisaya (preferably the Bisaya
    spoken in Panay), this question:

    "What are these?" (pointing at the objects below)
    [​IMG]

    I'm trying to resolve what I think is a 16th century mistranscription.
    Thanks a lot for any assistance.

    :)
    horge
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2009
  2. bikethief

    bikethief itchy trigger

    "Anitch itich?"
    "Kabibe, 'day."
    "Tarush!"
     

  3. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    LOL...

    Well that didn't work, haha :)
    They're called "sigay" even in Bisaya, are they not?

    However...
    a Spanish Relacion of 1582 refers to them as "bruscay", and I'm trying to
    phonetically rip "bruscay" apart into "bru" and "scay" (sigay), but this has
    to be in Bisaya. The account was referring to the island of Panay.

    If you can help me figure out what was misheard as the "bru" in "bruscay",
    I'll be a very happy little piggy!

    :)
    h.
     
  4. akula

    akula BizDuc NM Millennium Member

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    Diri, Diha, Didto
    H. ... also know as 'sigay' here locally (in Cebuano). I did asked our help.
     
  5. darwin25

    darwin25 Make your move

    Bruscay

    Bruhang siga. aaaayyy!

    Chorvah
     
  6. genderk

    genderk

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    FLORIDA
    bro, Bisaya spoken in Panay is locally referred as "Hiligaynon or Ilonggo" which is the dialect of Iloilo province and Negros Occidental. While Negros Oriental and Cebu use the other kind of dialect also known as "Bisaya" that is also used in Gen San, some parts of Mindanao and some neighboring islands of Cebu Island. Anyway, the images in the picture are called "Sigay" in Iloilo and Bacolod. To answer the question, would it be possible that they referred to as "duru sigay?". "Duru" means "many" in Hiligaynon/ Ilonggo, since the picture has "many" of those and not just one.
     
  7. genderk

    genderk

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    FLORIDA
    One town in Iloilo called "Dumangas" I heard was from "Duru" which means many, and from "Manggas" which means mangos. Altogether they mean "many mangos", but later on pronounced as "Dumangas". The story started when a spanish (part of Magellan's group) asked a native the name of the town. The native (a mango retailer) thinking that the spanish was asking what he was selling replied " Manggas". The name later on was developed "Dumangas" since he saw a lot (duru) of Manggas.
     
  8. bikethief

    bikethief itchy trigger

    Really interested where you're going with this, mister horge.
     
  9. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    That's very intriguing, thank you very much.
    PM me your real name so I can cite you properly, if you wish.
    It's for a research paper. :)
     
  10. MERCMADE

    MERCMADE BULLET PROOF

    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  11. cebuboy

    cebuboy toy soldier

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    Apr 27, 2004
    Cebu
    Those are sigay shells, used to play with them when I was a kid. Tie them with strings and take turns striking each others sigay winner is the one with the intact sigay. :)
     
  12. Clusterbomb

    Clusterbomb

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    Jan 22, 2008
    OT: I've been itching to ask this for a long time here. Please don't flame me, I just honestly want to learn (I'm a taal-na-Tagalog).

    A dialect is defined as a variation of a language. If Ilonggo is a dialect as genderk said, it is a variation of what language? Or should it be considered as a separate language alongside Cebuano? Is Cebuano a dialect or a language? I've always been under the impression that Bisaya IS Cebuano.

    Also, what is Kinaray-a? (did I get that right?)

    I think I wouldn't be asking this if i had married that pretty classmate of mine from Iloilo way back in my UP days, ha-ha. But alas, it was not to be.
     
  13. genderk

    genderk

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    nice discussion bros...bro cluster, muntik ka na palang madali ng Ilonggo a?...Anyway, back to our topic, my understanding of the term "dialect" as what bro cluster mentioned is a variation of a language "but only in the Philippines" and do not apply worldwide. Tagalog- called Filipino language worldwide, is the language of Filipinos while other dialects spoken in every region in the Philippines are called "dialects". Dialects are the sub-languages, or subordinate of a National Language (Tagalog in our case in the Philippines). Dialect is more of a regional speech rather than a nation as a whole. IMO, Bisaya is the dialect of Cebuanos (people of Cebu) while it is also used by some other regions in Mindanao especially. Although "Cebuano" is also refered to as a dialect- and does not only means "people from Cebu". Just like "Filipino" being referred to the language in the Philippines (worldwide), while it should be Tagalog. Technically, the term "Filipino" should be referred to as people of the Philippines.

    "Ilonggo" in my opinion should also be referred to as people from Iloilo, while the dialect should be referred to as "Hiligaynon"- the dialect of Iloilo province, Guimaras province, some parts of Mindanao (Cotabato), and Negros Occidental. Although it goes either way.

    Karay-a (or Kinaray-a) is a dialect used mainly in Antique province, and some towns in Iloilo province.

    Tagalog is known worldwide as the Filipino language, while the rest spoken in the Philippines are subordinates of it...and are called "dialect"...just my opinion...tnx.
     
  14. genderk

    genderk

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    FLORIDA
    bro, I"ll send u a PM...on the other hand, we have "Colloquialism" in the Philippines including our "Baybayin" that some words were only used as a form of expression, and not in a formal or written speech...or my first theory could be possible as well. Tnx.
     
  15. presidingglock

    presidingglock

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    Cebu
    Bro under our Constitution, Filipino is not synonymous with Tagalog. Tagalog is just one of the dialects in the Philippines. The national language (Filipino) is still evolving and should be composed of the different dialects used nationwide not just Tagalog. So technically Filipino refers to both the national language and a citizen of the Philippines.
     
  16. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    Just so you know what particular manuscript I'm looking at,
    it's Miguel de Loarca's 1582 Relacion de las Yslas Filipinas
    (AGI : Simancas-Filipinas; descubrimientos, descripciones
    y poblaciones de las Yslas Filipinas; años 1537 á 1565- 1.o hay 2.o :
    estante 1 : cajon 1 : legajo 1/23)


    The pertinent passage reads:

    “...solian acudir alli muçhos nauios de burney para el Rescate del
    bruscay que son vnos çiertos caracolillos qe heçha la mar ques
    moneda en Sian como El cacao en la nueva españa...”


    (“Formerly many ships of Borneo were wont to come here to barter for
    bruscay,which are a kind of seashells which in Siam is used as money,
    like the cacao bean in New Spain”)

    Other sources (from 1583 and 1591) adopt the term siguey or sigaye,
    with respect to the same seashells, observed in Panay and in Manila.


    :)
     
  17. atmarcella

    atmarcella

    3,765
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    Aug 27, 2004
    overwatch....
    h,

    maybe those shells are from boracay, hence boracay sigay or bruscay for short hehehehe.

    fish!
     
  18. atmarcella

    atmarcella

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    overwatch....
    btw, those sigay's in the pic are tough m'fers. we called them viking. bawal sa laro mga yun hehehehe.
     
  19. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    Viking? lol.... :)
     
  20. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    IMO lang, ha?
    Bisaya, Tagalog, Pangalatoc, Ilokano, etc... are distinct languages.
    Some of those have distinct dialects under them.

    There are other reasons, as I've discussed before, but I think this is one
    more reason why Tagalog got the nod as basis for our national language,
    over Bisaya. Debatable which had more native speakers, but Tagalog was
    less fractured into different dialects.

    Kasi nga Luzon is contiguous, whereas the Visayas is geographically
    fragmented. Accelerated tuloy ang divergence ng linguistic evolution sa
    mga separate Visayan islands. Minsan pa nga ngayon, away-away pa,
    over which Visayan dialect is the "true" Bisaya.

    h.