My impressions from the Senate hearing yesterday on gun control

Discussion in 'Gun-Control Issues' started by BRabbit, Jan 31, 2013.


  1. SIGlock

    Millennium Member

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    This makes him a liar.
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. SIGlock

    Millennium Member

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    Typical liberal democrats.
     

  3. SIGlock

    Millennium Member

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    So true. That's their tactic right now. No mention of the 2nd Amendment anywhere. Making people think the 2nd ammendment is for hunting only.

    The word "militia" is in the second amendment. And which part of "not be be infringed"....they don't understand?:steamed:
     
  4. The most frustrating thing for me is that Baltimore Police Chief Johnson says that the LE community is "united in this issue", when referring to the universal background check system.

    As someone who volunteers with a local Sheriff's Office I can tell you that we are NOT unified on this issue.

    I wish Mr. LaPierre had reiterated the fact that universal background check system requires universal REGISTRATION before universal BCs can be completed.

    The other thing is that Chief Johnson's responses were asinine. He was all about the "background checks" and refused to answer the point of the questions. Especially when confronted with the statistics about Baltimore's murder rate (extensive gun control) verses those of Texas (both Houston and Austin). He never answered the questions.
     
    #24 Kelo6, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  5. LaPierre can't say anything against universal background checks. He's on record in 1999 testifying in favor of universal background checks. The opposition would pounce on him as a hypocrite. There is already an ad that is suppose to air in the DC area tonight during the Super Bowl showing this testimony.
     
    #25 domin8ss, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  6. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts Brew Crew

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    Very good post.

    The worst was that condom Senator Dick Turban. He tried to make Mr. LaPierre look bad and not only mis quoted him but cut him off and went to the anti-gun police chief. The chief was obviously the "empty chair" there.
     
  7. True, but this is 14 years later, when we have statistics that criminals go elsewhere.

    He's smart enough to say "people change their minds freqnently. We have years of factual evidence to show that this won't work."

    LaPierre's current push is the bureaucracy created by a universal BC system.


    A real universal background check system for both in-store and private sales would require two things:

    1) The cooperation of every person buying and selling a firearm privately

    2) In order to track the cooperation of everyone, each firearm serial number would have to be registered in order to make sure it isn't bought or sold without a background check.

    Ultimately, they can't do it. There's no way to enforce background checks on private sales, unless every weapon is registered and they do random checks at people's houses.

    So I take it back. It is possible. And while not probably in the next couple years, it is a big concern for the future.
     
    #27 Kelo6, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  8. I'm not going to disagree with you because I'm with you on every point you made. The point you need to argue isn't with me, but with those that will do what I said. Many of the same people that are calling for more gun control are also the people who backed Obama in his presidential reelection campaign. Those same people were also quick to accuse Romney of being a flip-flopper. They'll very likely pull the same thing against LaPierre. That would hurt the NRA's credibility in the public perception. We don't need that. Their goal is to divide gun rights advocates. We need to stay united and strong in order to win this. So, lets make a play straight out of their book. What else can we say to turn the attention to another point in the topic without looking like a flip-flopper?
     
    #28 domin8ss, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  9. FloridaGun

    FloridaGun -> 10mm

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    Bought a gun from walmart.... That's nothing to brag about, walmart has some ****ty guns. IMO
     
  10. Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was picking a fight with you :supergrin:

    You are absolutely right, though. We do need to stand together.

    And I think there is a lot more we can say.

    It's illogical to think that criminals will stop buying guns from each other.
    It's illogical to think that criminals will stop stealing guns.
    It's illogical to think that criminals will stop being criminals.

    Universal Background Checks will not be used against the criminal element. They steal the guns and buy ones without serial numbers.

    What UBCs DO require is national registration and monitoring, to be sure that those "40%" of private sales are being run with background checks.

    In order for that to happen, every weapon will need to be registered.

    But we all know that's their whole agenda in the first place. The UBC system will create a huge about of bureaucracy and government over-reach.

    They can't enforce the laws we have now. How will they mandate and monitor the registration and transfer of even more firearms?
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    We, as American citizens, need the ability to choose to defend ourselves. That is, to exercise our 2A right. If other people choose not to, that's up to them.

    If other people don't want to exercise free speech, so be it. If they don't want to protect themselves from unlawful search and seizures, or to have an attorney present during questioning, I DON'T CARE. I really don't.

    I care when they chose to demonize me, or criticize me for CHOOSING to exercise MY rights, which are their rights as well.

    The anti-gun crowd have the SAME RIGHTS WE DO. It's not like it's an "Us vs Them" scenario. They are citizens as well!

    My appeal is to find common ground. Common ground in the fact that we're tired of having criminals run free in our society.
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    #30 Kelo6, Feb 4, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  11. To find common ground, I wrote something along those lines just today, which you can ponder. I hope it is thought-provoking.

     
  12. As To the AWB itself:


    An AWB is discriminatory.

    Collapsing stocks, pistol grips, and vertical grips can be vital to smaller shooters who need them to support the weapon effectively. A lot of those smaller shooters are women.

    AR-15's are light-weight and easier to use. Again, a benefit to small shooters, who are more likely to be targets of the criminal element.

    An AWB discriminates against women.


    "Barrel Shrouds"
    Not many in Congress can even tell you what it does, but those of us that know, realize that it is a heat shield. It's designed to PROTECT the shooters hand from getting burned.

    Prohibiting that, is like prohibiting the safety-shield on a table saw.

    "Threaded Barrels"
    Again, provides no practical advantage to the shooter. It's a cosmetic bonus that allows law-abiding enthusiasts to customize to their hearts content.

    These "assault weapons" are accurate, which is why we buy them. We seek to shield ourselves from accidental shootings of unintended targets.

    And most importantly, these AWB are RARELY used in crimes. I believe the most recent DOJ statistic, is some 1.7%


    SCOTUS HAS ALREADY RULED IN OUR FAVOR:

    The Heller decision (as stated by Professor David Kopel) established, that citizens have the right to own and possess those weapons that are commonly used for self defense.

    This includes handguns with 11-19 rounds, shotguns, and semi-automatic rifles with 30rnd magazines. Law Enforcement uses 30rnd magazines all the time (including ALL of the recent mass shootings), to defend themselves and others. This was reiterated multiple times by Professor Kopel during the senate hearing. Standard-capacity magazines of self-defense weapons today are 11-19 rounds for handguns and 30 rounds for rifles.

    SCOTUS has already determined that we're in the right.


    From the DC vs. Heller Decision:

    Pg 2 of the PDF on SupremeCourt.gov:

    This is what Professor Kopel was talking about. Those weapons that are "in common use for lawful purposes."


    This is also critical, those who believe that the 2nd Amendment is arcane:

    From page 8 of the decision:
    Malitia service is not a condition of possession (from Page 9):
    And from pages 10 and 11:
    So if all else fails, if the AWB does get passed, I think there is plenty of legal precedent to get it repealed.

    I'm sorry for that ridiculously-long series of posts. I hope it was worth reading.
    :wavey:
     
    #32 Kelo6, Feb 4, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  13. Exactly - until they determined we can't have high powered rifles for large game hunting because a cartridge like 7mm Mag and 30.06 are so powerful that a misplaced shot in the wide open can travel for a few miles and possibly hit another hunter, a car, etc. Isn't is nice the Gov't is always looking out for us? NOT!
     
  14. Texas357

    Texas357 Señor Member
    CLM

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    I read that 90% of murders are comitted by felons. Rather than keeping better track of guns, why not keep tighter controls on felons?
     
  15. In addition to everything here, you have to think like a political elected sheriff or chief. The goal is arrests and convictions. That is how they are measured. If they can make it easier to arrest people for 'technical' violations or breaking the myriad of fuzzy laws, they can increase their record. It is a LOT easier to arrest you for having a 'hi-cap' magazine than actually tracking, finding and arresting a real violent criminal.
     
  16. Jim Brady got shot & ever since, Sarah has been able to put food on the table & then some by beating the Antigun drum.

    Giffords is doing the same. :dunno:
     
  17. Jerry

    Staff Member Moderator Millennium Member

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    Not only does it help her poot food on the table.... She has made enough to buy her son a nice new rifle. :rofl:

    HYPOCRITE!
     
    #37 Jerry, Feb 7, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  18. BRabbit

    Millennium Member

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    The pro-gun/pro-rights side needs to rely on facts and logic and realize that the anti-gun/anti-rights people operate on emotion and won't be swayed from their beliefs. Facts and logic, calmly and repeatedly presented will get across to the American people. The biggest hurdle however, is the MSM not giving equal time to the pro-rights people as they do the anti-rights crowd thus preventing the message from getting out. The majority of the MSM is complicit in attacking gun rights, and nothing but "entertainers" vs "journalists" in contrast to many years ago, and this is reflected in the low regard that people have for them as well as for politicians.

    The strongest tool the pro-rights people have right now is the "alternative" media and the ability to learn of proposed legislation and to organize in real time using the web, vs back in 1993/94 when one had to rely on television, newspaper, and a monthly periodical. The pro-rights side is better organized and prepared than was the case 20 years ago. Knowledge and reaction is much faster today in regards to what happens in DC.
     
    #38 BRabbit, Feb 13, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013

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