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My altercation with "Top"

Discussion in 'US Army Forum' started by Hal9mm, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. Hal9mm


    Jun 9, 2002
    First Off I realize I'm a cherry butter bar, I am trying my best and think that things were actually going pretty good. Well I was walking past some of my NCO (some from my platoon and a couple other from our company) any ways the 1SG calls me over "hey lt I got a question" I walk over and respond "sure whats up 1SG?"

    "Well I heard that you became an officer to get out of deployment?"

    My response, "well I heard you got relieved on the last deployment"

    boy did that piss him off making up all sorts of excuses for getting relieved.

    I am thinking it was a pretty bad move on my side and I shouldn't have gone to his level, but I have been 100% respectful to him even through all of his smartass comments, I was just fed up and I really wanted to show him I was tired of him trying to push me around.

    pretty unprofessional on both sides:freak:


    Jan 9, 2004
    Well, if the latter is true he doesn't have any room to say ****. If the former is true then you don't have any room to say **** either.

  3. Hal9mm


    Jun 9, 2002
    He was relieved I re-enlisted for 6 more years during Iraq and Afganistan. The deployment was not something that anyone would want to get out of.
  4. Avenger069

    Avenger069 Signal Warrant

    Aug 9, 2004
    Metro Detroit
    If I understand what you're saying...he called you over and said that in front of all the other NCOs from the company? That would be pretty messed up since I have never had but the most professional 1SGs around me.

    However, even with that being the case (IMO) you should not have replied back in front of those NCOs. Be the better man and discuss it behind closed doors or pull him aside. Believe me when I say that you will not build respect and unit cohesion as a new officer busting Top's balls even if it is true.

    Just remember in today's world it is likely that you will depending on those NCOs and trusting them with your life someday.

    Like I said this is just my opinion and the culture in your unit may be different.
  5. MP1SG


    Oct 9, 2004
    Tampa Bay area, FL

    There is a lot that could be read into this, as we only have a portion of the story. Sounds like there may be some history from your enlisted days. Was there a respect or other issues when you were enlisted? If so, that monkey will be on your back for a long, long time and only YOU can get it off your back. Memories aren't erased just because one gets commissioned. Hope it all works out well for the Army, it aint about the two of you, it is all about the Army and the soldiers you lead.
  6. Hal9mm


    Jun 9, 2002
    No respect issues before this incident I was always 100% respectful to everyone. He use to give me a hard time but what junior enlisted soldier doesn't get their fare share of hazing:)

    I think he might be a little pissed that I went from junior enlisted to a big O?

    All of the other NCO's seem to be happy for me.

    Maybe he is just trying to humble me? or make sure I do not get a fat head???:freak:

    I don't mind a little ball breaking but we both have different jobs to do and this kinda thing doesn't help either of us.
  7. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Rainwatcher

    Jan 26, 2006
    You responded in kind to an NCO who had been relieved, and you're surprised because you have respect problems?

    Self control is an essential pre-requisite for leadership.

    Without it, you are lost. I suggest you develop it.
  8. Good post! I agree with you 100% :goodpost: :goodpost:
  9. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Feb 22, 2005
    Republic of Texas
    Sounds like top got spun. Also (if you included all of the pertinent details) sounds like he was trying to establish pecking order in front of the other NCO's.

    Personally I'd, have drug him off to the side (hey top, can I talk to you for a second.....) and the only other thing the others would have heard was me asking in a loud voice, "who the F!!! do you think you are!" and then lowered my voice to try and ask him what his problem is.

    Make sure the CO knows what is going on. Big question is that if he was relieved, why are you not referring to him as MSG.

    Cherry or not, you have to figure a way to work through the transition from enlisted to officer. You also need to do it in a way that you don't burn all of your bridges. Every situation is different, but you have to lead by example, don't tolerate being punked. I too returned to a post where I outranked all of my former NCO's (a little over 10 years ago).

    Good luck,

  10. I dont know what type of units you serve in, but there was nothing wrong with that conversation where I have worked.

    The 1SG opened his mouth, and you responded. Thats normal for combat arms unless you have thin skin or work a support job.

    If you are going to talk smack in front of others be ready to get it talked back.

    I guess one could cry and say officers have to be higher than that, but you could say the officers out rank NCO's too, and that was wrong of the 1SG.

    I talk trash to my officers all the time. I am open and honest with them about everything. They know where we stand, and that I do my job when its time, and have fun when its time.

    If I read it right the poster was a soldier in that unit and is now an officer, I find that strange.
  11. CAV:

    What you describe above, isn't a good management style in the military or civilian life for that matter.

    As a former 1SG, I would not think of saying such a thing to a fellow NCO, muchless, an Officer in public.

    Of course, the Officer provoked the 1SG and was also dead wrong, for making such a statement in front of troops, as well. If I was one of the troops there I would not be impressed with either of these two "leaders. (?)"

    A good manager, never argues or disciplines a subordinate in front of the troops or employees. This 1SG was way out of line and so was the officer!

    Your statement makes me wonder, how much real management experience you have. I see you are an LEO, I was a Captain (Retired) in a large LE Agency and I wouldn't have done anything like that there either!

    One of the most dangerous things in the military? A 2nd Lt. with a compass & Map!
  12. Argue is the key word. IMHO there was no argument based off what I read, or discipline.

    I have served in the tightest of units with Infantry, Rangers, S.F., and SFOD. I was/am Infantry (part time now with a Cav unit N.G.). I also serve as a LEO for a fair size agency. I get along with all, and can give and take. Most people are amazed at how well and tight I am with workers.

    In OIF we would talk trash all day long in our unit, but let a person outside the unit try and then its a different story. IMHO its part of the job, and can build a strong team, unless you are weak minded, and take things to heart.

    Last I checked SFC, 1SG, 2LT, and CPT are all at the top of the company (and should work close with HQ meetings), so its not like a PVT busted out the CPT in front of the Company.

    I guess I just dont see this the same as some based on what I read.
  13. Sam White

    Sam White I miss you bud Silver Member

    Nov 17, 2001
    South Dakota
    Cav, from what I could tell, Hal went to OCS or got a Direct Commission and came back to his unit as an officer. If he's NG, that's not strange at all. All of the officers in my reserve unit except for the commander were nco's who got their commission and came back to our unit as 2LT's.
  14. Cav:

    Perhaps you need to re-read what was said:

    "Well I was walking past some of my NCO (some from my platoon and a couple other from our company) any ways the 1SG calls me over "hey lt I got a question" I walk over and respond "sure whats up 1SG?"

    "Well I heard that you became an officer to get out of deployment?"

    My response, "well I heard you got relieved on the last deployment"

    boy did that piss him off making up all sorts of excuses for getting relieved.

    Now re-read what I said in my last message.

    The remark from the 1SG infront of a other NCOs and Platoon members was both derogatory and argumentative as well as insulting, and should have never been said before other NCOs and.or Platoon members. The Lt's reply was just as bad for the same reasons, and very unprofessional conduct for a Commissioned officer.

    I think that the Lt. should have refrained from making any counter remarks to that 1SG. He should have called him aside and warned him that his statement bordered on being disrespectful and insubordinate to a superior officer.

    If the 1SG continued in this disrespective manor and rendered more insulting and insubordinate statements, I would have prefered charges against him for that insuborination.
  15. I read it as the 1SG wanted to mess with the new LT (in a good or bad way is unknown) with a few soldiers there and the table got turned on the 1SG. To me I wold care little to none on either side, but the 1SG got the worst of it IMHO.
  16. fxdwngflyr

    fxdwngflyr NSDQ 92-03

    Nov 20, 2005
    is that people are being promoted to early. They dont work for and truely "earn" thier promotion. Also, ratings dont accurately represent and counselings are not being done.

    The breakdown is starting at TRADOC and has flourished since.

    Top should not has opened his mouth. Save it for later.

    LT you should not feel the need to reply in such.

    Now to open another can of worms, how were you as an enlisted man. Sounds like a perception may be following you. My recommendation, find another unit and start over if you can. If not you will need to work pretty hard to change a perception of yourself.
  17. I agree!:goodpost: :goodpost:
  18. jetrecbn1


    Mar 30, 2000
    Bad form on both sides. I get ribbed by my NCO's for losing my BACKBONE. They say stuff that stings but I have skin caloused from the Infantry. I learned to have quick wit when I was 11B. This use to surprise my NCO's because I can throw them out faster then they could. If it bothers you to the point, handle it behind closed doors.

    Get used to them saying "you can't spell lost without the LT." This is where you rebut with "you can't spell iNCOmpetent without NCO."

    Hey, I can say that. I wore both ranks.:)
  19. Sounds like NG or USAR. Cavalry Doc got it right, take the 1SG aside and get it settled. If you were a dirt bag as an NCO or EM you'll have a tough time as an officer especially in the reserve system where there is way more unit stabilization. If your unit doesn't have much to do there can be resentment when an "O" gets much larger drill pay for doing the same thing.
  20. cobranx

    cobranx 10mm man

    Mar 18, 2006
    Fort Hood
    Why would you let the 1sg say something like that to you? It's your job as an officer to pull him aside and tell him to stay in his lane. As a butter bar, people will test you. If they see they can walk on you, that's exactly what they're going to do.