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More Durable:9mm vs .357 Sig Glocks

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Mister X, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. Mister X

    Mister X

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    I often see people say +P and +P+ will wear out your 9mm Glock too fast or that it's bad for it etc. and even had a Glock Inc rep recommend against it saying that if I felt I need +P or +P+ 9mm ammo, then I probably need a bigger gun and don't want to tear up my gun.

    I don't see comments about the .357 Sig Glocks "wearing out" even though the .357 Sig has higher operating pressures than +P 9mm and I think even +P+ 9mm loads.

    The guns are the same size and the .40 Glocks were built on the 9mm Glock platform and the .357 Sig Glocks were then built off of them, so I'm wondering how & why the .357 Sig would be more durable than the 9mm Glocks even if all you shoot is +P & +P+ loads in the 9mms.
     
  2. .50 cal

    .50 cal

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    Glocks wear out? :dunno:
     

  3. barth

    barth six barrels

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    G27/G33 are identical except for barrels and mags.
    Dropping in a Storm Lake G27 40-9mm conversion barrel, being 40 size, looks like a thick bull barrel.
    I've got no problems at all running 9mm +P and +P+ all day long in this gun.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  4. TxGlock9

    TxGlock9

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    I think its complete nonsense the higher operating pressure will wear out the gun faster.
     
  5. bac1023

    bac1023

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    It may wear out the barrel faster depending on velocities. :dunno:
     
  6. NG VI

    NG VI

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    sounds like fake science to me. Slightly more pressure with +P 9mm (operating at the same pressures the Glock was designed for anyway) make little difference except in barrel life, which is basically indefinite with pistol barrels anyway. The higher recoil forces are more of a factor when it comes to pistol lifespans, and +P really isn't much of an increase in 9mm.

    Lots of people spout the statement that if you feel the need for +P in 9mm, you need to upgrade your caliber, but they're ignoring the reality that +P 9mm isn't significantly harder on the guns or shooters than "standard pressure", which is a moving target anyway. Are the light 115 grain "target" FMJ loads standard? Are the S&B and Fiocchi loads standard? There is more variation in "standard" pressure loads than there is among the various +P loads, and it's greater than the difference between high end standard pressure and ordinary +P loads as well.

    Lots of people claim that +P is a marketing gimmick to sell more expensive cartridges, but all the defense ammo I am willing to pay money for costs the same amount as the same bullet in standard pressure. Basically, it kind of bugs me to see people act like +P 9mm is the same relationship to standard pressure as the .38-44 loads had to regular .38 Special. It's not. It's not at all the same, +P 9mm is just loaded to the cartridge's potential, and most of the time +P+ 9mm isn't any different than +P, unless it's being loaded by someone like a Cor-Bon or a total unknown quantity.

    The Federal 124+P+ Hydra-Shocks were loaded lighter than many +P loads by other name-brand companies, for example.
     
  7. icelandicstud

    icelandicstud

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    it's not more durable.

    can go back in forth about how much is milled out of the slide and barrel size etc.

    can go back n forth about pressure all day as well.

    But what can't be argued is that 40 and 357 generate more recoil then 9mm - and since all the guns (9 357 40) have same guide rod spring #. 357 and 40 are going to make that slide bottom out harder and that over time will wear them out faster.

    but change the spring # and your problem is pretty much solved. From there the difference in life of each gun would be so marginal it's not even taking the time to discuss.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  8. James Dean

    James Dean

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    If anything I would think the recoil spring with 357 sig and +P ammo would need to be replaced more often than standard 9mm
     
  9. icelandicstud

    icelandicstud

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    barrel wear between these rds is another moot point.

    they will all exceed 100k rds EASILY. That's 100,000 rds. ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND

    barrel life calc says approx 200k for 357sig and 300-350 for 40 and 9.
     
  10. icelandicstud

    icelandicstud

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    The difference in powder between standard pressure and +p is generally 1 grain or less. Again, so what.

    case capcity of 9 vs 357 is 13gr of H2O vs 20gr of H2O on 357sig. 40sw is 19gr but it's a bigger hole so doesn't errod the barrel like a smaller hole does.
     
  11. icelandicstud

    icelandicstud

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    if you want to worry about barrel life go shoot a 300 weatherby - 90+grains in a .308 dia hole...barrel life is around 1000rds :)
     
  12. unit1069

    unit1069

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    If any Glock "wears out" then send it back to the factory with a written history of the number of rounds shot and any other relevant information. You'll probably end up with a factory-refurbished pistol that you can wear out again.

    The trick is wearing a Glock out in the first place. I don't know if I've ever read of that being done.
     
  13. barth

    barth six barrels

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    +1 on that for me.
    Replacing your recoil spring a little more often ($17.95).
    Oh My, Scary!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  14. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    My guess is that there are very few Glocks in private use that are worn out by shooting and probably a very percentage of those would be rebuilt by Glock for minimal cost. Also if someone can afford to shoot a Glock, 9mm or .357 Sig, to the point where it is worn out, the cost of a replacement Glock will be minimal compared to the cost of the ammunition.
     
  15. G17gen3

    G17gen3

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    If I wear out my Glock I'm going to display it w/ pride on a shelf w/ little history of the use and abuse I gave it. We've all seen those vids on Glock torture tests and the darn thing is a Timex as it can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. If the SHTF I'd be proud to carry a Glock and belive I would fail before my Glock ever would!
     
  16. JBP55

    JBP55

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    I saw two G35 barrels out of 35 that started keyholing after more than 100,000 rounds were fired from each.
     
  17. ak103k

    ak103k

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    I had a 31, and I currently have a number of 17's.

    One thing I noticed early on with my 31 was, the underside of the side was getting battered pretty good where it was contacting the locking block, and it really didnt have that many rounds through it when it was becoming noticeable. I was told by a number of people that it was a common thing with the .40's, but the couple of .40's I looked at, really didnt show what I was seeing. The edges of the slide at the points of impact, were developing some nasty burrs, and they showed no signs of slowing down either.

    My one 17 has a good bit of +P+ through it now, and the most you'd notice it, is some minor finish wear at the same point the 31 was getting battered. The metal itself isnt damaged at all, and its got a lot more rounds through it than the 31 did.

    What I dont understand is, if +P+ 9mm and 357SIG are basically the same thing pressure wise, why would the 31 show such a beating, and the 17 not?
     
  18. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

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    It's all about slide velocity. In any given caliber, using a lighter, faster load will be harder on the gun. With a .357 it's about as bad as it can get. 135-155 gr in the .40 is close.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  19. voyager4520

    voyager4520 -----

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    I've heard of .357SIG frames having to be replaced after high round count by some LE departments, but I've never seen pictures of the frames or heard the approximate round counts. The front frame rails are one solid piece of metal, and at some point Glock added two little extensions to it to reach forward and stop frame battering. I've heard that with high enough round count, even those metal extensions will crack and the frame will need to be replaced.

    From what I understand the metal extensions to the front frame rail insert were added in Gen2 .40 and .357 frames some time in 1998. This is one of the reasons you're not supposed to put a .357 barrel in a Gen2 .40, because the frame may not have the metal extensions. I don't know when 9mm frames got the same reinforcement, I'd assume it'd be when Gen3 9mm frames had the locking block pin but it might've been later.

    This picture shows a frame made before Glock added the metal extensions to the front frame rail insert, and shows how frame battering can damage the frame:
    [​IMG]

    In this post by Butch you can see a good picture showing the metal extensions showing through the polymer:
    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17928480&postcount=18
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
  20. The Gemini

    The Gemini

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    The question posed by the OP needs to be more clearly defined. If we're talking regular 9mm to .357sig, the 9mm is going to win hands down, as far as being easier on the gun. It's when you get into the +p 9mm that the question is more intriguing. When you talk about +p+, then it's a totally different ball game all together.

    There are currently no SAAMI specs for +p+ 9mm loadings. Therefore, one +p+ from one manufacturer is going to be different from another manufacturer. There is no loading specification for the pressures a +p+ 9mm can put out. A +p is generally going to be closer to the .357sig loading, and both are going to be similar to .40s&w. Note that I'm saying "similar", and not identical. This is also why some gun manufacturers will not allow the use of +p+ ammunition in their 9mm guns. There is just simply no way they can engineer their guns to operate with a loading that they don't know the SAAMI specs for.

    It's all about slide velocity. When you start going to higher pressure loadings (+p 9mm, .40s&w, .357sig, and finally +p+ 9mm, the slide will be increasing its' velocity accordingly. This translates into increased impact forces (slide to frame), which also means the RSA is getting compressed that much faster and harder.

    Regularly changing the RSA will definitely help prevent any unintended harm or damage to the gun, as will changing to a different rating RSA.


    II
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012