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MidwayUSA with a bit of a sale on DoubleTap

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by Deep Nylon, May 26, 2010.

  1. Deep Nylon

    Deep Nylon Me flinch?

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    May 1, 2010
    Plano, TX
    Link here

    $38/box for some loads (about 10% off). Just ordered some 135-grain ammo for fun at the range. :whistling:
     
  2. Angry Fist

    Angry Fist Dehumanizer® Lifetime Member

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    Hellbilly Hill
    Nice... puts a lil' dent in the shipping. Never seen DT on sale anywhere before.
     


  3. kippjones

    kippjones

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    May 21, 2007
    Midwest
    Why is DT ammo so expensive??? I get the fully loaded thing but what else???
     
  4. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,623
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    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    DT is actually a pretty good value when compared to other premium SD ammo. DT sells in boxes of 50 so the price is < $1 each per round with shipping. Others sell boxes of 20. $1 per round is right in the neighborhood of SD ammo from Hornady and Winchester; but significantly less than Corbon or Buffalo Bore.
     
  5. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    Maximum profit for what the market will bear (pay). Customers will pay that price for the performance advertised. As long as the product lives up to advertising and the customers agree it's a value, they will continue to purchase at that price.

    The difference in material cost between .40 level 10mm ammo and full power 10mm ammo is pathetic. It's really only the powder charge which costs less than a penny difference between full power and weak loads. The powder costs about the same whether it's off the shelf powder or super secret OEM only powder.

    Also recall the manufacturer must pay 11% of the sale price to the ATF/IRS for excise tax on the ammunition, so figure between $4-5 per box of the price is taxes they must pay, which is passed onto the consumer traditionally.
     
  6. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    21,907
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    Jan 26, 2001
    DT is the least expensive of the full power 10mm ammo companies. BB is full power and full price so to speak.

    CB is close to full power but not quite and still costs more than DT.

    Win, Fed, Hornady, and all those manufacturers are mid powered loads compared to the Norma orginal data of a 170gr. round @ 1400 fps.

    DT claims to be that fast and their old stuff seems to test that way in real world guns, but from what you read here and other places folks are getting "Cor-Bonish" readings with the latest batch of DT.

    BB is putting out full power stuff from what others have chronoed in their guns, but you will pay a steep price for it and they dont make a mid weight or light weight defensive load, only the heavy and hunting loads.

    CB rates their 10mm loads at only 100 fps faster than the same bullet weight in their .40cal loads.....not really 10mm power, more like a .40cal "+p" so to speak.

    Reeds ammo posts some true 10mm velocities with the appropriate weight bullets and is priced very good, but they are out of their 10mm loadings and i dont know what they actually chrono'd at with real world guns from regular Joes.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  7. Angry Fist

    Angry Fist Dehumanizer® Lifetime Member

    38,527
    6,491
    Dec 30, 2009
    Hellbilly Hill
    Bigger, not as common brass and large pistol primers too, right? Still... chump change. It shouldn't cost the customer more than 5-10% over .40 to produce....
     
  8. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,623
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    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    In addition to the raw materials costs (primers, powders, brass, & projectiles), the 40 benefits from production on larger scale and,thus, benefits from lower indirect production costs per unit. The costs for machine setup, distribution, administration, and other plant overhead are distributed over a larger number of units. As is 9mm and any other more widely producted cartridge. Therefore the indirect production and overhead costs are less for the 40 than 10mm. This probably has a greater affect on the price of ammo than does the direct materials.
     
  9. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    My ammunition is full power 10mm and $19.50/50 practice, $30/50 Nosler, and $35/50 for XTP. DT isn't the cheapest and I've run into other manufacturers loading full power 10mm like DT, BB, my company, that are priced the same or even a bit lower with reloads.

    No, brand new brass for the .40 S&W and 10mm Auto cost exactly the same. Primers are $1 per thousand more for large than small for the most part.

    Brass, bullets, primers, dies, press stuff are identical in cost. If they use a dedicated magnum primer it's about $2 per thousand primers more than standard. The only thing that costs more when running 10mm is powder if your charge is more than a .40 S&W charge.

    Not true. Surely distribution and admin costs are identical. It takes no greater effort of wizardry to load 10mm than it does .40 or .45 or 9mm. Ammo boxes are same size as .45 ACP as are the plastic trays to hold the rounds in the box. It costs me the same in overhead to load any pistol cartridge in my catalog. Takes the same amount of time, paperwork, all that jazz. There is certainly nothing mysterious about loading 10mm ammunition, but companies like to market hype so good for them.

    The difference in component cost between me loading new .40 S&W and new 10mm full power is $5 per thousand rounds. Darn now I got that "five dollar foot long" Subway song in my head.

    Overhead is calculated as a cost and factored to COGS. Price is set from there by any of a few methods. I price my ammunition to a set profit margin across the board. I make the same margin no matter what cartridge I sell. Others do it differently.
     
  10. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    21,907
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    Jan 26, 2001
    so when does your company get 10mm back in stock?
     
  11. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    Hopefully sometime in June. I've been out since September of 2009 due to brass supply. My order for 20K Starline hasn't shipped yet. I'm switching to Top Brass since they have a better supply line than Starline. I got a few hundred cases for free at SHOT show this year to test out before I put in an order with them. So far I'm very satisfied with performance. Also have to finish loading the 9mm and .45 ammo I have to clearance out. Then I'm focusing on full power 10mm and heavy weight .38 Special/.357 Mag (180gr WFN and 220gr LSWC) and that's it. The 1050 will be setup for 10mm and left alone. All the other cartridges will be local sales only and they will be pulled from the website. This is part of the overhaul I'm doing, so I will only have a few hundred rounds in stock of each load for a bit but when sales kick up I will be able to carry more inventory since my capital is focused on 10mm and the .38/.357 will be limited production.
     
  12. azatrox

    azatrox

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    Jan 6, 2008
    Arizona
    What is your companies name, and how will I be notified when your full house 10mm loads are ready to be shipped?
     
  13. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    Link is in my profile. Website has live inventory tracking. If it's in stock, you can add to cart. If not in stock, you can only window shop.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
  14. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    Maybe. Correct brass is only available from DTA. If I do decide to load for it, it will simply be reformed brass for cost and simplicity to start with until I have the capital to get my own headstamp.
     
  15. DWS22

    DWS22

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    May 26, 2008
    Go Blue
    FS, I thought you closed shop after the shot show????Now your back selling again???:dunno:
     
  16. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

    I didn't close, but was close to it. Thankfully the LGS has been buying the ammo from the canceled orders allowing me to settle debts, which will be finished and paid off in 2 months or less. I sought professional business counseling and developed (with their help) a business plan similar to when I first opened in 2006. Basically only online sales will be 10mm ammo in stock, no back orders. Anything else other than 10mm will be reserved for local wholesale sales to the gun shops. That's how I started and did wonderful, but when I tried to expand the catalog and be competitive on volume, that's when my business started failing. I'm just going with what worked in the past.
     
  17. DWS22

    DWS22

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    May 26, 2008
    Go Blue
    FS, Great, l wish you luck, and look forward to your reviews...:cool:
     
  18. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,623
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    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    The difference in price between factory .40 S&W and 10mm auto can be explained by:

    Differences in direct materials + pricing premium + higher per-unit production costs due to less efficient production economies of scale.

    In the absence of a cartel, competition is a check on price gouging. There may be some premium pricing in play, but that cannot be the total story. That leaves unit production costs.

    I think my initial point was missed. I did not hypothesize that direct materials are substantially more expensive, they are not. I also don't believe that there is anything exotic about making 10mm auto. It costs the same to "pull the lever" for a 10mm.

    Cost absorption is an elusive science and WAY beyond the scope of this thread. My point was that the big producers have lower per-unit INDIRECT production costs for the .40 because it is produced on a massively larger scale than the 10mm auto. This dynamic is not as apparent with a small production shop. It is subtle. I could write an essay explaining why (in fact I have written papers on this subject), but a lot of folks would probably get pretty bored. Who am I kidding, folks are bored with this post already. I apologize.

    By the way, I am a huge fan of the entrepreneur. I enthusiastically wish you tremendous success with your business!