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Making Police Officers wear Cameras

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by EOS, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. wprebeck

    wprebeck Got quacks?

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    Mm..looks like heaven
    Of course, my opinion is based on real-world experience with said body cams, and not just something that I feel is a good idea. What's your experience with body cams being used in a law enforcement setting again, John?

    Wait - they don't HAVE those for computer programmers?

    Well..who knew?
     
  2. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    I'd expect that exulpatory evidence would be released to prevent this sort of thing. If not the video, a narrative summary of what it showed would have found its way into the news.

    From what I've seen so far, it sounds like the officer did what he had to do.

    A lot could have been avoided if there was a video showing that.
     


  3. DustyJacket

    DustyJacket Directiv 10-289

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    Until a victim, or suspect, or bystander realizes they are being recorded and dislike it.

    Witnesses and victims may clam up, suspects may do the same or even try to escape, and so on.

    And, don't get me started on potty breaks. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  4. John Rambo

    John Rambo Raven

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    Calling me a computer programmer is like calling you a meter maid. Are you a meter maid?

    Whats my experience? THEY'RE IN USE ACROSS MY STATE and we're getting along just fine. Your personal 'real-world experience' means about zilch when stacked up against multiple precincts worth of police.
     
  5. EOS

    EOS

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    :dunno:


    Does it take a PhD in criminal justice to make the conclusion that having footage of altercations involving officers would make both parties accountable? I'd say common sense can handle that one.

    Besides, you serve me. I am the customer here. I can suggest to the pizza maker at Dominos a better way to make my pizza, why can't I suggest a better way for you to protect and serve me?

    Meh, buy a few less tacticool drop leg holsters, gas grenades and SWAT vehicles. Cut funding to useless Narc and/or Vice units would help too.

    Equipment can and will be broken, no doubt about it. But should this stop officers from using it? By this rationale you shouldn't carry radios.



    I thought you worked at the jail? Did you switch positions? Anyways, if a woman answers her door in a shirt and panties its a fair guess that she doesn't mind being seen in such a way. If the footage is needed in court, tell the jury to grow a pair. If its on the news, censor it. If the footage is requested for open records, deny or censor any sexually explicit, etc material. Problem solved. You're just nit picking me now, W.

    Each department would create its own protocol about body cams. I'm sure no rational department would force you to keep your camera on in the **** house. Same for personal emergencies. But police officers should expect more scrutiny than the average citizen.

    I also never said body cams would lead to a utopia or a perfect comfortable environment for LEOs.

    Who do I look like? Steve Jobs? I'm not an electronic engineer. Just plug the damn thing in while you're in your squad car. How do you keep your radio charged during these extended shifts?


    How much space does it take for a database on every citizen within a large metro area?

    I'd say if the officer has an uneventful shift, then the footage from said shift would be deleted. Keeping storage needs to a minimum. How is the dash cam footage stored? How about an on board hard drive?

    Again its should be up to the departments to develop their own guidelines. Not me. I am but a humble citizen..........

    Was there this much controversy when dash cams were first installed? Does the dash cam stay on constantly? How is its footage stored? Do you face repercussions if its not turned on during a stop or chase? Is it required to stay on while the squad car sits in your driveway?


    I addressed them as best I could.

    I'm not advocating bigger government. Cut unnecessary waste and this wouldn't be a problem. Its adds accountability to government. Something it lacks terribly. I'm advocating accountable government.

    Admittedly, this is something that only larger metro areas would be able to afford. But then again, where do most shootings between cop and citizen happen?

    See above.

    I'm not sure everyone in this thread who agrees with cameras is a "young kid". And you make it sound as though I'm still in diapers. I'm a grown ass man.




    What answer would you get if you asked most of the rioters at Ferguson why they were rioting?

    "Because a white cop shot an unarmed, surrendering, black kid."

    Would they have a leg to stand on if footage showed something to the contrary? The people who are rioting are doing so from ignorance. Let's cure their ignorance, and show them what really happened.

    Whats the alternative? Are you okay with a brother in blue possibly being forced to serve time as an innocent man?


    Technology improves daily. How old are your body cams?
    Some departments use old equipment. I know of one back home in EKY that still carries 59 series S&Ws.

    Come to think of it, I know of a Sheriff's dept that gets new cruisers every two years, another example of waste.



    I've been to Paintsville often. I know people from there. They don't have racially charged riots there. Sometimes they may have to arrest someone driving with pill residue on their nose or bust a meth lab, but the need for body cams is quite low there. Large metro areas who are better equipped to afford them, need them more.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  6. Glock!9

    Glock!9

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    I would not want to be a cop and go on the job without them...
     
  7. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

    Again, as has been standard practice for decades, evidence/info isn't just released to make people "feel good".

    An investigation isn't compromised to try to appease a group.

    ANY claim right at the start that things look OK will be dismissed as a cover-up, or if there's any change to what was initially released; now it's a cover-up. Nothing will win/convinced a biased person/group, or change the media from pushing a story. Nothing.

    Just because today the 24 hr media cycle fuels frenzy doesn't mean the investigative process must be changed and now everything is tried by TV.

    LE isn't a spectator sport, no matter how many TV channels are dedicated to trying to make it so.
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Yeah, pretty much.
     
  9. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Well, in this case, we'll never know. The video of the strong arm robbery was released though, wasn't it. Why wasn't that kept in the evidence locker until the grand jury? If evidence is always held close to the vest, why was the officer's version of events released at all? Why not just stay perfectly quiet until the grand jury? Looks to me they've released some information that they thought would be helpful. But they didn't have a video. Maybe they would have kept it secret, maybe not.

    Like it or not, LE is a spectator sport. Everyone IS watching.
    LE aren't even the only ones with cameras.

    Hey, it's just my opinion that a camera and the video of the event might have stopped some of what happened, if it showed the official version of events. We won't know in this situation because there was no camera.

    I'm still supportive of the concept. And it's something that's probably going to happen. I have read that ferguson had already bought the cameras, but had not deployed them yet. They probably will now, in the near future.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  10. Markk9

    Markk9

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    I really like the idea of a full time camera the records video and audio on LEO's any time they are on duty. While you are at work, there is no expectation of privacy. Any arrest or ticket that is written with out a recording, doesn't count is thrown out of court. LEO's need be made aware they work for the public. With more and more people having audio and video capabilities, we are seeing more and more LEO's trying to abuse the system.
     
  11. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Correct


    Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire
     
  12. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Lifetime Member

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    So you believe that you have the freedom to record me in the locker room?

    Sorry, "incorrect".
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  13. BORNGEARHEAD

    BORNGEARHEAD

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    I have no idea what the two cost but if tasers are deemed ineffective maybe they should be phased out for the cameras?
     
  14. barbedwiresmile

    barbedwiresmile Unreconstructed

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    You beat me to it.

    This is the reality, for better or for worse. Given the stakes, I would prefer to have a camera than to not have one. I would think that "LEOs" involved in justified shootings would feel the same way. It's only logical.

    So the question remains, why wouldn't an "LEO" want a camera at all times to verify the exact nature of the situation they are responding to and protect them against allegations of excessive force and/or unprofessional behavior? I mean, it's not like they are out there engaging in excessive force or unprofessional behavior. Is it?
     
  15. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Lifetime Member

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    "At all times" is the deal breaker. The examples I gave earlier are just the sort of things that don't need to be part of the public record. I've done death notifications, I've seen the bloody sodomized women in their 70s. I've had to talk to witnesses that were terrified of retaliation. I find it obscene to demand that these people be taped. Its not right and I won't do it.

    You don't trust your government, and cops are the visible face of that, I get it. You demand video for every arrest, maybe we can talk. But always on so that you can audit my work and see the suicide victim, see momma break down when I tell her that Billy is dead...nope. I'm not going to be part of the Ghoul Network.
     
  16. EOS

    EOS

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    This is the question of the thread.

    Why wouldn't you want irrefutable evidence of your innocence unless you're.............not innocent?
     
  17. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Lifetime Member

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    I'll give you a chance to read a bit more before I fully express myself.
     
  18. barbedwiresmile

    barbedwiresmile Unreconstructed

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    As you are aware, yours is an opinion I respect. So in the spirit of honest discussion:

    I can understand this in principle. But in practice, the average "LEO" is not going to be qualified to make the judgement call on when the camera is on and when the camera is off. Nor will "policy" produce an acceptable outcome (as you know). It's sort of an all-or-nothing deal.

    For the record, I don't have a "government". I am subdued by the right of conquest - nothing more, nothing less. The modern state is so far outside the rule of law that I may as well be ruled over by a sovereign. Superior force is the only legitimacy to which the United States regime may lay claim. And it carries exactly that degree of moral authority. Which is to say, zero. This Leviathan is a disgrace to the vision of our Founders, to any sense of integrity or morality, and to natural law.

    Yes, they are. Nothing more. Nothing less. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas. It's a shame, really, because there is a subset of "LEOs" (of which I believe you and a few others are a part) that deserves better than this corrupt master.

    See my first comment - the individual "LEO" in the field will not have the capacity to make the decision as to when the camera is on and when its off. Perhaps you have that degree of intelligence and good judgment, but the average individual will not. And then we're right back in the same zone of ambiguity and mistrust.

    You expect me, as a citizen/civilian, to earn your trust. And I respect that point of view. But it works both ways. To argue against this fundamental is to argue against both natural law and observable truth.
     
  19. EOS

    EOS

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    What would that entail? I'd love to hear it.

    You don't want to record a heinous crime scene with your body cam? I'm truly trying NOT to be condescending here, but I don't buy that as a good enough excuse.

    If you shot Michael Brown on your shift wouldn't you want proof of your innocence? Especially if you were found guilty in wound up in a Black dominated prison.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  20. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Lifetime Member

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    If the average cop can be trained to know when its lawful, and beyond lawful, necessary to take a life, he can be trained as to when it's proper to cut the video. Really.

    If for some reason you can't teach your recruits to ask "what would I think if it were my baby sister being filmed", then the first thing that needs attention is your hiring standards.

    Not trying to be short here, but its bedtime. I'll look in tomorrow.