mag capacity

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Madmax1010, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. I carry a g27 and I don't load the mag to capacity I leave 1 out, because that's what they taught me in the military. I don't feel bad about not having that 1 round. 9 rounds is plenty in my opinion for me. Now someone else maybe not.

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  2. ^^^agree. I just sold my last 1911, and got rid of all my .45 reloading equipment.

  3. SCmasterblaster

    Millennium Member

    I hope that it is not contagious - I CCW a G17.
  4. I have also wondered where the raw data came from or if it even existed. Plus, if data does exist was it largely based on police or civilian situations?

    And are the averages really that common? Because averages (or means) sometimes are not common occurrences, data is often organized into mean (aka average), median, and mode. See link.
    #24 jack76590, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  5. i was just stating that sometimes it seems that training etc goes out the window when the adrenaline kicks in and most of us will never know how we would react in that situation.
  6. I EDC a G30SF. 11Rnds of .45acp is enuff for me! And depending where im going ill have a 13rnd backup mag. Personally I could give 2 turds what someone else carries. I know I have my family and myself covered! To each there own..
  7. Just relocated from NY to Georgia. 2nd Amendment friendly. Wo We high cap city.:cool:
  8. you can carry what you want, don't worry what the rest of the world do.
  9. User name seems appropriate then.
  10. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936
    Millennium Member

    all things being equal I would likely choose more rounds than less but in a carry gun, its not all equal and when you factor in desired weight, size, specific dimensions, ergo.. round count takes a back seat. As a citizen, the chances of sustained gun battles are even more distant than the likelihood I will ever fire in SD at all. I would not feel ill prepared with a 7 shot pistol. If I did, I would carry a extra magazine and for the sake of malfunction- its probably not a bad idea to carry a extra mag anyway.
  11. Lior


    My subjective take on the importance of capacity for civilian self defense in public:
    Going unarmed and oblivious: 0 self defense points.
    Going unarmed but aware: 5 self defense points.
    Being armed and trained:
    Carrying a derringer: 20 self defense points.
    Carrying a wheelgun: 21 self defense points.
    Carrying a semiauto with multiple reloads: 22 self defense points.
  12. Fixed
  13. I know both Gunsite and Sig Sauer Academy refer to and validate the 3/3/3 stat in their classes as do most reputable instructors.

    As a civilian, most conflicts are resolved without even having to fire a single shot as the mere presence of a firearm is often enough and if shots are fired, most bad guys flee immediately (if physically able) which explains why the averages are so low. The 3/3/3 stat is just the average, no where does anyone say every gun fight will abide by that average, but stats should be viewed as helpful tools to help folks prioritize their training and not waste an inordinate amount of valuable training time on scenarios that are improbable.

    It's Law Enforcements job to ENGAGE, so I would think it much more likely they would be involved in scenarios where high round counts might be necessary and while it's a possibility for civilians as well, it's not all that likely. It's probably a good idea to carry more rounds than you'll likely need just in case, but if someone wants to play the odds and feels comfortable carrying a 5 shot J-Frame or a small auto that holds 6 or 7 rounds, the odds really are in their favor.
  14. Bill Lumberg

    Bill Lumberg BTF Inventor

    Dan nails it.
  15. I recall as a young federal agent, receiving courtesy training from the NYPD range staff at Rodman's Neck, in the Bronx, where they told us (this was in the revolver days) that the average gun battle was 2 point something rounds in two point something seconds. This was based upon NYPD shooting history which at times averages one shots-fired incident per day in a force sometimes as large as 42,000 men, or the equivalent of nearly three infantry divisions.

    As a young agent in the 60s, I'll admit to being obsessed with magazine capacity even though we didn't transition to autoloaders until late in my career. Early on I bought a Browning High Power but I wasn't authorized to carry it on the job.

    Magazine capacity is not a substitute for effective shooting. As Wyatt Earp once said, "fast is fine but accuracy is final." As a retired LEO who went on to manage the firearms training program of a law enforcement agency prior to retirement, I'm no longer concerned with capacity. First, I no longer participate in raids, arrests or felony car stops. There's nothing in my home that would attract a home invasion by a platoon of bad guys. For the most part, bad guys stand up and trade shots mostly in the movies and on TV. Watch actual surveillance videos and you'll see that in most cases of armed resistance, the bad guys flee, sometimes firing as they do so.

    Citizens and LEOs alike would be wise to study the infamous and tragic Newhall incident (CA) in which four highway patrol officers were slain mostly through bad training but perhaps two of these men might have survived with higher capacity weapons.

    So, here's my summary. Carry all the ammo you want but make every round count. 10-round magazines, in the hands of someone skilled at reloading under stress, is nearly as effective as higher capacity magazines. Here in NY we're in somewhat of a mess as a federal judge threw out the 7 round limit but we don't know if it applies to the entire state. But then, I mostly carry a Kahr P9 with a total capacity of 8 rounds and one spare magazine. When I do carry my G19, I stay within the law so that the other side (if there is another side) can't paint me as a mall ninja just waiting for an opportunity to spray the entire county with lethal "cop-killer" bullets.
  16. I've said this before but for me I want at least 10 rounds and prefer 12. After that I don't care about capacity. For 50 years a BHP was considered plenty to excessive capacity. The world has not really changed that much since then. A double stack pistol feels good in my hand, it feels and shoots better than a single stack. That is true for me and I don't care much how it is for others since I'm the one carrying it. A service handgun cut down to subcompact size just works for me as a carry and I'm probably getting to old to change at this point.
  17. It's really just and excuse to justify shooting smaller calibers. It's kind of a bragging rights war.
    #37 oldman11, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  18. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936
    Millennium Member

    good post right there ^^^
  19. So you going to ask the bad guy tostand still and come close so you can place your shot.
    This arguement is a joke
    #39 hunter 111, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  20. "You can't be too good at fighting for your life."

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