close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Talk

Why should YOU join our Glock forum?

  • Converse with other Glock Enthusiasts
  • Learn about the latest hunting products
  • Becoming a member is FREE and EASY

If you consider yourself a beginner or an avid shooter, the Glock Talk community is your place to discuss self defense, concealed carry, reloading, target shooting, and all things Glock.

Mac OS X - world's safest computer (OS)

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by FThorn, Nov 2, 2004.

  1. FThorn

    FThorn TV/Movie Club

    658
    0
    Apr 30, 2004
  2. AAshooter

    AAshooter

    1,753
    0
    Nov 1, 2000
    Kalifornia
    . . . and Beta is technically superior to VHS! ;f
     


  3. RonC

    RonC

    333
    0
    Jan 28, 2002
    Eastern NC
    Yep. Marketing consistently trumps technology.
     
  4. MikeG22

    MikeG22 CLM

    2,444
    406
    Jun 24, 2002
    San Diego
    Sure have seen alot of security alerts come out for OSX lately though....
     
  5. FThorn

    FThorn TV/Movie Club

    658
    0
    Apr 30, 2004

    Not really. And what little has been out is getting fixed quickly by Apple.

    The fact remains the same.

    I have no third party software 'protecting' my Macs, whereas Windows PCs you will DIE without them.
     
  6. Halo

    Halo Millennium Member

    222
    0
    Nov 2, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    The Mac operating system does have some intrinsic advantages, true, but also realize it's not nearly the juicy target that Windows is. If you manage to get 90% of the home computer market, then let's talk about no viruses on the Mac ;)
     
  7. PurchGuru

    PurchGuru Senior Member Millennium Member

    75
    0
    Dec 30, 1999
    North Central Florida
    I have to agree with Halo. The threats are proportional to the size of the user base ... Windows, Linux and then Apple.
     
  8. fastvfr

    fastvfr Ancient Tech

    2,344
    0
    Mar 28, 2001
    SW Oregon
    The fact is, any properly installed Linux kernel is FAR safer to use than OS X Panther will ever be.

    It is nothing but a freeky version of *Nix known as 'Darwin'...and I know for sure that it is nowhere near as secure as a lot of other OS's I use.

    Even a patched and hardened copy of XP that is set up properly with the applications that you are apparently horrified of, like AVG, SpyBot 1.3, and a firewall. My GF's copy has run for over three years as solidly as any Linux box I have, with zero viruses and only a few 'cookies' showing up in its monthly checkup scans.

    Three years of XP SP1a, on ADSL, and no problems whatsoever. Plus, LOADS of excellent software is available for XP.

    Why, may I ask, do you think it is a good idea to pay 3X what the system's hardware is worth in order to fight an obsolete OS that is dumbed-down to the point of being like Mandrake 1.01 on bad acid? Panther has a LOT of nasty habits even without viruses and it also has few if any decent 3D games available for it!

    I mean, what is the point of subjecting yourself to that?!

    Just because Steve Jobs told us to?! You know, I totally ignored him; perhaps you should consider taking that stance as well.

    Of the two dozen or so clients I have that use MacOS'es, mostly 8 or 9, but a few have paid the upgrade fees and run 10.1 or 10.3, most of them seem to think that Windows users have it SOOOO much worse ,and a couple of ex-clients even went so far as to call me a liar when I told them that viruses are something only ignorant Windows users get; they were somehow convinced that ALL PC's get hundreds of viruses a day! And these poor dummies were dealing with ten times the BS from their Mac than I see on the average VIRUSED PC!!

    So don't take this as a flame, but please don't spead misinformation, friend. OS X 10.3 is nearly okay; usable and stable for the most part...but not even close to the caliber of OS that a well-maintained Debian 2.6.8_i686 kernel or a well-managed XP represents.

    And if you give me that, "Well, my camera wouldn't work on 153 different Windows PC's, but it ran automagically from my Powerbook!" line from the commercials, I will let loose some goodies from some of my tech calls that will REALLY undermine your position! So, how about we don't go there.

    The fact remains that people are fundamentally lazy, and when a person gets used to Apple machines, they aren't normally comfortable on a PC, and vice versa. I honestly think that is the real root of all this Fan-Boy stuff.

    And, as much as I abhor their business practices, at least M$ does not charge you to patch your OS. WMP8 to WMP10? No problem. None of this absolutely evil "Thank you SOOO much for upgrading your OS, Sir! Oh, you want to update iLife3 to iLife4? Certainly! That'll be ANOTHER $50, puhleeeze!" crap.

    ;Q :( ;Q :( ;Q

    Good luck,

    FastVFR

    PS. Oh, and BTW, there are more exploits for OS X than for half a dozen different Linux kernels combined. Or hadn't you heard about those?
     
  9. RonC

    RonC

    333
    0
    Jan 28, 2002
    Eastern NC
    fastvfr wrote: "Why, may I ask, do you think it is a good idea to pay 3X what the system's hardware is worth in order to fight an obsolete OS that is dumbed-down"

    I don't know your experience or knowledge but I trust Walter Mossberg's, the technology editor for the Wall Street Journal. His and my experiences with the Mac seem to be at serious variance with yours.

    If you compare feature to feature with any major computer maker, like Dell, the Mac is not overpriced and nowhere near 3X. Rather the price is the same or a little less for comparable hardware.

    "So don't take this as a flame, but please don't spead misinformation"
     
  10. Tennessee Slim

    Tennessee Slim Señor Member CLM

    4,413
    0
    Apr 14, 2004
    Mucus City, USA
    My neighbor has the world's safest automobile. It's an '88 T-Bird sitting up on blocks, 200 feet from the nearest road. Catch my drift? ;)
     
  11. AAshooter

    AAshooter

    1,753
    0
    Nov 1, 2000
    Kalifornia
    I'm a little slow at these things but I am not sure I did.^8 ^8 ^8
     
  12. Tennessee Slim

    Tennessee Slim Señor Member CLM

    4,413
    0
    Apr 14, 2004
    Mucus City, USA
    The fact that some yahoo considers OSX the safest OS on earth doesn’t do much to alleviate its other shortcomings. A junker sitting on cinderblocks might be collision-proof but it just doesn't do what I generally buy cars for.
     
  13. FThorn

    FThorn TV/Movie Club

    658
    0
    Apr 30, 2004
    your comments aren't very enlightened.
     
  14. fastvfr

    fastvfr Ancient Tech

    2,344
    0
    Mar 28, 2001
    SW Oregon
    Heh heh.

    Apple G5: $3,000. ...and that is with only 2.0GHz worth of processing power...

    Dell 8250: $2873 for their "top of the line", which is still a POS by power-user standards...I mean, a 64MB Ti4200 graphics card in a nearly $2900 PC?!? Mine cost far less than half of that, and it has a 256MB, 256-bit 5900 Ultra in it...which is about 15X more powerful.

    See, YOUR Mac, if it is a decent, newer G5 model, has about $1100 in parts in it - if you have the dual procs and two HDD's installed, as well as a DVD burner and a CD-RW.

    And it cost you, what, about $3500 or so?! $1100 X 3 = $3300.

    And that Dell's guts are worth maybe $900 at most. But that is the components' retail prices; Dell buys the cheapest parts available by the trainload. As does Apple. So for Dell, $900 X 3 = $2700...three times its true equipment cost.

    Now consider mine; this PC will eat any G5 or Dell on the market for breakfast...and with a $100 gaming case its parts (all bleeding-edge at the time, BTW) cost only $1300 - with shipping.

    Along with XP Pro and five other non-M$ OSes figured in, I might add.

    So not only can a PC be made to be as safe if not SAFER than an OS X machine, but it is far more flexible and can easily be built for the price of the components and the OSes you decide to use. And you do not need to buy hardware or apps you'll never use; instead you can just upgrade for more power or functionality.

    Which leads me to another thing...why don't people upgrade their Apple machines with 3rd party hardware to keep them useful?

    Because they can't. By design and quite possibly by malice aforethought. What a bargain. ;Q

    And as far as Mr. Mossberg goes, he's not exactly on the front lines of computer repair, is he? "Why shouldn't a computer work just like refrigerator or a toaster?" is one of his most intelligent quotes, is it not?

    I concede; I can't see any reason to upgrade a toaster, either...but as it inevitably will, your Mac will one day lack the power needed to process larger, more intensive apps, and it will begin to take too long to do its job.

    That is when Mr. Mossberg and Mr. Jobs will just smile and tell you that your $3500 machine is obsolete, and advise you to spend $4000 more for a NEW Mac, so it will run your apps properly. What a crock.

    With a proper PC, a bit of added RAM or a CPU swap (normally $300 or so) gives your PC a new lease on life, and you will have inexpensively created a far better PC from your old one, one that is truly the equivalent of a newer model, without needlessly having to repurchase every component.

    Apple's Planned Obsolescence is something of a scam, if you hadn't noticed....

    And from what I have seen and heard, there are more people who agree with my views on this than with Wally M.'s.

    I am glad your Macs are working out for you; just please don't try to suggest that they are better than a PC in any way. Because they aren't; not in price, power, safety or functionality do they hold a candle to what a PC is capable of.

    If they were better, more people would use them.
     
  15. RonC

    RonC

    333
    0
    Jan 28, 2002
    Eastern NC
    I will respectfully disagree with you.

    Clock cycles are not a measure of efficiency. Since the RISC architecture used by Apple can do the same real work in 1/2 to 1/3 the number of clock cycles of an Intel engine, clock rate is not a measure of anything, except obsolete architecture.

    As with many PC folks, going all the way back to DOS days, you seem to be more enthralled with the fact that you can tinker with the hardware internals and the software than the amount of real work you can do. (Remember the gyrations to get TSRs into hi memory?)

    Here, our PCs are on a 3 year replacement cycle. Talk about built in obsolescence.

    Sorry, this thread is about security. Regardless of the cause, the thread starter's original comment is correct. You can debate whether that will be true in the future all you want.
     
  16. CranialCrusader

    CranialCrusader

    528
    0
    May 7, 2000
    TX
  17. Tennessee Slim

    Tennessee Slim Señor Member CLM

    4,413
    0
    Apr 14, 2004
    Mucus City, USA
    To understand what a bargain that is, you only need check the price on a 64-bit Intel slug.
     
  18. RonC

    RonC

    333
    0
    Jan 28, 2002
    Eastern NC
    Tennessee Slim:

    Just out of curiosity, what do you usually buy cars...uh...computers for?
     
  19. Tennessee Slim

    Tennessee Slim Señor Member CLM

    4,413
    0
    Apr 14, 2004
    Mucus City, USA
    Same thing. Grin factor.
     
  20. pwrtool45

    pwrtool45 /etc/moron.conf

    49
    0
    Aug 8, 2003
    H'ville, AL
    I'm curious about this. How is having larger code with fewer hardware-level instructions more efficient? I've never done any PPC ASM since I don't have anything with that arch to check it out (nor do I know of any free shell accounts on machines which allow access to an assembler and linker). I do know, however, that it's called *reduced* instruction set for a reason. CISC processors, like the intel x86s, have a larger microcode vocabulary. Having done x86 ASM, I really appreciate things like SHR, SHL, and IMUL, which I don't think are available in PPC ASM. Any advantage in theoretical efficiency has to overcome the fact that developers are limited to simplistic solutions (by comparison).

    The PPC arch seems to be popular with embedded manufacturers, but I tend to think it's more because of the accountants than the developers. I know I would be supremely annoyed to wake up one day and find out that I have to do a project in C++, but half the standard library has been overridden and I can't use it.