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LPP sensitivity, which brand is most sensitive?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by HAMMERHEAD, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. HAMMERHEAD

    HAMMERHEAD

    3,449
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    Dec 20, 2002
    Minnesota
    I had two failures to fire today with my Glock 20 using Win brass and CCI primers, the strikes looked light, so I'll have to detail strip and clean my slide, also double check my priming procedures.

    This, and a recent thread over at THR got me thinking about primer sensitivity.
    I had always thought CCI were more sensitive, and Federal less sensitive, but now I'm wondering if I have it backwards.

    My buddy has a T/C carbine in .45acp, and my handloads with CCI primers have trouble in that gun.

    My Sigs and HK's have no trouble with CCI LPP, but both my G-20 and G-21 have.

    Are Federals more sensitive than CCI's?
    Winchester in the middle?
     
  2. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    Lynnwood, WA
    Did the 2 failures fire the second time loaded? If the do you have a high primer issue. CCI primers are middle of the road for hardness, there should be no issues in Glocks with standard firing pin springs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2010

  3. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    There is nothing wrong with your primers. They are either seated too high, or your rounds aren't fitting the chamber. If your chamber is dirty, your crimp is insufficient, your OAL is too long, etc. the round won't seat all the way in the chamber. The firing pin hits the primer, drives the case forward and soaks up the eneergy of the FP strike.

    I run a lighter FP spring in my G17 and use CCI primers all the time, which are supposed to be the hardest to set off. Never any problems when my ammo fit the gun and the primer was seated properly.

    I've even had a pound of accumulated crap like carbon, brass filings etc in my FP channel that I didn't realize and the gun ran fine.
     
  4. n2extrm

    n2extrm

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    Feb 24, 2009
    I had Clark Customs replace the barrel and tune my 586. When I got it back it would not fire 6 out of 10 reloads with CCI primers. I called them and they said it was from the light main spring, they could tighten it up or I could switch to Federal primers. According to them Federal are the softest primers. I have found Remington a close second, no failures to fire. CCI and Winchester I have problems with, only in that tuned target gun.

    As Wiskey said, a Glock should have no trouble with CCI if everything else is good.
     
  5. HAMMERHEAD

    HAMMERHEAD

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    Dec 20, 2002
    Minnesota
    Yes, I know the problem today was likely with my loads, I stated that in my first post.
    I also understand how high primers cause problems.

    I didn't re-chamber them, I took them home to check them out.

    But just for fun, which primers are considered most sensitive?
     
  6. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    Mar 6, 2003
    Lynnwood, WA
    Federal are considered by many to be the softest in terms of ignition. I started a post a while back asking the same for my P3AT .380 loads, that were hit or mis with CCI and or Wolf SPP.
     
  7. HAMMERHEAD

    HAMMERHEAD

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    Minnesota
    Thank you for a simple, direct answer.
     
  8. n2extrm

    n2extrm

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    Feb 24, 2009
    Federal followed by Remington. CCI is the hardest with the mil spec primers being their hardest.
     
  9. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    North Carolina
    If you want a simple direct answer, Charlie Petty did a test a few years back where he showed they were all the same.
     
  10. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    CO
    My G20 fires CCI every time all the time. Stock springs in the gun.
     
  11. D. Manley

    D. Manley

    1,604
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    May 30, 2005
    Southern US
    If the primers are seated properly and used in a stock gun, any brand will normally be just fine. In a tuned gun, different story...go with Federals as 1st choice, Winchester 2nd choice. Federal is without doubt the most sensitive but Winchesters will run with all but the lightest of FP strikes.
     
  12. ron59

    ron59 Bustin Caps

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    Jan 3, 2009
    Smyrna, GA
    On Charlie Vanek's trigger site, he mentions his trigger kits having issues with CCI primers if the lightest striker spring he offers is used. He also provides an "intermediate" striker spring that can be used in that case. So here's a guy who produces a BUNCH of trigger kits, that people have reported having issues "popping" CCI primers, but not Federal. Guess that's all in his head? For a guy who's been doing that as long as him, you don't think he's done some research and gotten plenty of feedback for him to go so far as to post it in his instructions?

    Ask the master shooters what they want to shoot.
    I had a talk last summer with Grady Whitlaw. I'm pretty sure I recall the conversation correctly, where he said he used Federals, not CCI. Of course, it's all in his mind, right? Couldn't be the BAJILLION rounds he's probably shot in his life, with personal practical experience?

    I'm not a Lee user, but I'm pretty sure I've read on here that with one of their presses, the instructions explicitly state "NOT TO USE FEDERAL PRIMERS.". Really? They'd put that in there "just because"? Ummm... I think not. It's because they're softer an can go off easier and cause an issue.

    Go out on Google and search for the same question. I just did. I couldn't find a source that listed them "as the same". All said Federals were softer, CCIs were harder. Granted... I didn't follow every link there so maybe somebody says they're the same. But when I read that Lee Presses say don't use Federals as they're too soft and can ignite too easily, that Vanek admits CCIs are too hard for his "race" setup.... yeah, I'm going to think there's a difference.

    But hey... what do I know. I listen to Lynyrd Skynyrd.

    :whistling:
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  13. HAMMERHEAD

    HAMMERHEAD

    3,449
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    Dec 20, 2002
    Minnesota
    Mine is a 2nd gen, stock as well.
    My problem I think is my priming procedure, I'm still priming on the press, the down stroke after sizing. Works fine 99% of the time, but the leverage is not there, and if things get sticky, I think I leave a few high.
    I inspect every powder charge, but not every primer.
    OK for practice ammo, but for serious ammo I need a serious priming method. Looking at the RCBS Ram prime or the RCBS bench primer. Don't want a squeeze primer, my hands get enough of a work out at work, and tendonitis is creeping in.

    I had avoided Federal primers until now because I though they were harder/less sensitive, I think I've had it wrong.
    Thanks all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  14. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    Sounds like you are on a LM maybe? If so you can adjust the primer punch a little further. I never had issues with high primers on my LM. Also, get some ammo boxes and case gauge your important ammo. When you put it in the gauge you run your finger over the primer. You will get a good feel for high primers like that. Good luck.

    Edit: And don't forget to be sure the shellplate is tight. Another LM trick is to size over the seating station. You would need a universal deprimer in station 1 for that to work. THey don't cost much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  15. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina

    And are apparently a bad sport about it. I think you need a little less Skynyrd and a little more of the Dicksy Chicks. A good cry will make you all better.:upeyes:
     
  16. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    11,682
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    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    As for switching to Federals to make your gun run, hey, have at it. I'm sure it will help a gun run or the builders wouldn't do it. If you use your gun for games, and think that will make you a winner, have at it. I have my guns for other reasons, and believe me, a microjoule of FP power one way or the other is not how I do things. I wonder how much people who actually win matches, rather than just compete and put the stickers in their car windows, bother with guns that will only fire Federal primers? The best shooters in the world compete at Camp Perry and use GI ball.
     
  17. Agreed. Federal softest (easiest to ignite) and CCI the hardest. This info from a retired 40yr gunsmith who is famous on some other sites.
    Sonnytoo
     
  18. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    Conifer, CO
    I prefer a very hard flint, produces superior spark and makes for very clean knapping. O course all those sissy modern shooters complain that the can't see their targets.

    I usually light a cigarette right about then just to add to the cloud. Screw 'em. :whistling:


    Jack
     
  19. HAMMERHEAD

    HAMMERHEAD

    3,449
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    Dec 20, 2002
    Minnesota
    Not sure what an LM is, I'm using a Redding T-7 turret press, one shell holder, one cartridge at a time. There's nothing to adjust in the priming system.

    I do need to run my finger over all of them.
    For premium ammo I plan to use the ram prime system and put each finished cartridge in the gauge and slip it under my dial indicator, this will check case length and primer seating depth, as well as the usual checks by the gauge.

    Thanks all.