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Long Range RimFire Precision

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by jaisan, Jul 3, 2010.


  1. jaisan

    jaisan
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    Hi Guys,

    This is Johnny Garcia aka Jaisan- have been wanting to do Tactical Precision Rimfire ala 6mm club and SoCal. I have Glocks and have been a user of glocks for years and am a fan of this forum, but I also shoot rimfire long distance (25- 200 meters). Have watched rimfire threads in other forums and hoped and prayed we would all be able to do so (it's cheap kasi eh!). Well myself and a friend (Sonny Marin) have started to write the rules and regulations with the help of PPSA Anton Lorenzo which will be presented to the PPSA board for approval and it's full support in getting us organized and permits to transfer with FED.
    In the Bolo Cup will be there at the 75 meter range with a fun shoot with Armscor 22 rifles - have talked to Bob Sajot and si Major Tulaio and have their full support. We will try to hold weekly practice matches with at least one full match a month at the Armscor range (from 25 to 100 meters (Bob has figured a way to give us a hundred meter range (thanks Bob)). Will probably hold the first match after the gun show this July. In the meantime we will try to hold weekly fun matches 25 -50 rounds 25 - 50-75 meter matches in Armscor PTR permitting with the big competition slated for Dec at the Splendido Taal range wherein we will have short range, medium Range, and Long range matches.

    A primer on Long Range Rimfire Precision (LRRP) is as follows:

    "LONG RANGE RIMFIRE PRECISION RIFLE COMPETITIONS

    The 1st Edition Long Range Rimfire Precision Rifle Competition Rulebook is currently being reviewed and finalized by the Philippine Practical Shooting Association (PPSA) and the National Range OfficersÂ’ Institute (NROI). Pending its official release, the following general guidelines for the conduct of LRRP Rifle matches are being disseminated for the information of those intending to experience the new riflesport discipline.


    Long Range Rimfire Precision Rifle Competitions (LRRP Rifle Competitions) are open to all single action, manual action (bolt action, lever action or pump) or semi-automatic rifles chambered for the .22 long rifle cartridge. Rifles chambered for the .22 rimfire magnum or .17 rimfires will not be allowed - but with enough interest, the PPSA Board may consider the use of rifles chambered for these cartridges in subsequent matches.

    Competitions will consist of shootings strings or courses of fire requiring no more than five rounds to complete with a par time of one minute. A combination of paper, frangible and reactive targets at distances of anywhere from 25 to 200 meters and farther will be used as target sets, with the shooter landing the most number of hits on target being declared as the match winner. To be competitive, rifles must be able to shoot a one-inch group or less at fifty meters - roughly the equivalent of a 2 MOA accuracy. Because of the distances involved, the use of a riflescope will be a necessity.

    At present and until further notice, all shooters will be competing in a single Open Division. However, the LRRP Rifle Rulebook as proposed eventually calls for classifying rifles into different divisions, e.g., Light Rifles weighing less than 8.5 pounds, Medium Rifles weighing more than 8.5 pound but less than 11.5 pounds and Heavy Rifles weighing more than 11.5 pounds. The top three shooters in each rifle division will be declared as match winners.

    All shooters competing in a LRRP rifle match will be awarded Certificates of Recognition which will provide their corresponding shooter classification for that particular match. The LRRP rifleman classification and the corresponding match scores needed to achieve the same as a percentage of total possible score are as follows:

    Master Rifleman - 91.0% - 100.0%
    Expert Rifleman - 81.0% - 90.0%
    Sharpshooter - 51.0% - 80.0%
    Marksman - 36.0% - 50.0%
    Basic Rifleman - 5.0% - 35.0%

    Unless otherwise indicated in the course of fire, targets may be engaged by the competitor in a freestyle manner. Shooting mats or ground cloths that do not provide undue advantage are allowed as some of the targets will be engaged from a prone shooting position. Simple shooting slings, bipods, backpacks, rucksacks or sandbags may be used as an aid in shooting, along with elbow pads and knee pads unless prohibited in the course of fire. However, specially shooting jackets and shooting gloves that provide artificial support to the rifle while shooting will not be allowed, and so with palm rests, butt rests and butt hooks. Adjustable butts must be centered and adjustable cheek pieces fixed and taped in place.

    LRRP rifle competitions will use the same rimfire tactical precision targets that may be found and downloaded from www.6mmbr.com and www.snipershide.com.

    Additional information and updates regarding the sport of long range rimfire precision rifle competition will be posted at www.ppsa.org.ph."

    If you guys want to join us or shoot or be emailed as to when we will have competitions and what courses are: just pm or email me - will setup a separate email for this or go to PTRA which we will transform to LRRP - but we will hit all forums to try to keep everyone updated. I will be at the Bolo Cup on Sunday together with my partner Sonny Marin to answer all and any questions - we welcome everyone to join in at this point in time.

    Also we will be working with Armscor courtesy of Bob and George Chua to produce a 22 rifle suitable for this sport (ie. heavy barrel, magazine feed, 5 round magazine, Silouhette type stock, capable of sub moa at 100 (will try - mukhang kaya) at a decent price).

    For those of you who want to shoot, who want to learn rifle marksmanship (as we also will be learning together), want to have fun, want to bring their children- join us and hopefully we can make this a fun, fair, and legitimate discipline...

    regards to all

    Jaisan :wavey:
     

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  2. Wp.22

    Wp.22
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    Kailangan ba member ng ppsa to join
     

  3. Allegra

    Allegra
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    uy , I'm interested :) mahigpit din ba ptt ng 22's?
     
  4. darth board

    darth board
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    steel killer

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    sana meron ding 22 pistol competition.
     
  5. jaisan

    jaisan
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    Initially it will be open to all to join... a lot of the courses will be channeled through PPSA gun clubs - but there will eventually be a website wherein people can download courses and targets to practice... eventually though either the shooters will be members of PPSA clubs or possibly a new organization being put up called the national riflesports association of the Philippines...
    As of now most anyone can join the matches.

    As for the ptt for 22 rifles - we have to talk to fed and explain na 22 ito. We will know better by next week hopefully- will keep you guys informed.

    In terms of competition - will focus first on 22 tactical rimfire, then action rimfire - we intend to include pistols in the future and make it like a two gun match or some solo pistol matches. When - depends on the participation and volunteers to help form the matches....
     
  6. Allegra

    Allegra
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    tactical 22 rimfire? any videos ? :)
     
  7. randr1979

    randr1979
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    finally!
     
  8. Taurus

    Taurus
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    This is welcome news.

    Please do post practice/match schedules. I will definitely attend if time will permit.

    Question lang: Isn't 200 meters too ambitious for a 22 lr round?

    Anyway, kudos to Jaisan for spearheading this.
     
  9. jaisan

    jaisan
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    Hi Allegra:
    Try this:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTgjtn625zo

    For info try this
    www.6mmbr.com/rimfiretactical.html
    and Sniper Hide rimfire section.

    Taurus:
    we have shot at 200- taught my friend and my son in one session to do so; weapons used were: Marlin bolt gun with bushnell scope, CZ 453 Varminter with China Scope, a Ruger 1022 with China scope and my Remington 37 bolt gun with nikon scope. 5 out of 10 were hits at a 10 inch plate as the wind was blowing and our bullets were drifting as much as a foot and a half. Have the pictures at the following link:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/garciajg/sets/72157

    In the US they shoot at 300 by sighting in their rifle at 35 yards 13.5 inches high which will make you "close at 300 yards"..

    It seems crazy pards but kaya.... and we are willing to share what little knowledge we have.


    Randdr1979...
    Thanks..
    We are just waiting for clarifications regarding the PTT's but we are headed for informal competitions on weekends (Saturday's) in Armscor with monthly matches (Bob Sajot and Major Tuliao have so kindly advised us that they can rig up a 100 meter range for us in the Marikina range). The rules and regulations are now with PPSA for approval and they too will assist us with the PTT's - so we are trying to get the critical mass here.

    In the Bolo Cup competition we had the 75 meter range with a fun shoot with rifles provided from Armscor. Bob's gun (armscor bolt) was doing cloverleafs at 50 with their sub sonic bullets. We shot paper targets, ballons, metal targets, and Sonny Marin brought over golf balls at the 75 mark. We had kids as young as 8 and 11 (with their parents of course) and we had adults looking like kids shooting to their hearts delight. We meet a lot of nice people interested in the sport including one from PPS Taiwan.... Everyone trying to share ideas and theories as how to sight, shoot, and basically have fun the inexpensive way. Some guys bought 200 rounds per head....
    It was exhausting on our part (Sonny, moi, and the NROI fellow (Bing)) but we enjoyed it.

    Looking forward to more shooting hours at Armscor - then Splendido in December (25 meters to 200-300 meters)..

    Rimfire to it's extremes... hope we can do it.

    thanks all..:wavey:
     
  10. stinger030

    stinger030
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    Jaisan,

    I think the guy's name from PPS Taiwan is Donald. He really enjoyed shooting the 22lr and tried all three house guns that were provided by Armscor. He fell in love with Bob's bull barrell rifle.

    Jojo
     
  11. pipo

    pipo
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    Sir Taurus if you follow the airgunning forums you will see that our very own guys using locally made pcp rifles compete BR100 with ram targets a little more than a small matchbox in size. Some others claim 180 yrds shoot hitting bottes.... yes also with airguns. So i think 200 meters for a 22 lr (with good quality ammo) is very much achievable. Thats why Im also interested. he he he
     
    #11 pipo, Jul 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  12. Putok-Glock

    Putok-Glock
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    pcp as in pre-charged pneumatic? Bro saan at sino gumagawa nito sa atin?

    Thanks and sorry for the ot...
     
  13. jaisan

    jaisan
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    Hi Stinger030,

    pards, not only Donald fell in love with that single shot varminter - it was doing cloverleafs at 50 meters - I fell in love with it too.
    Working with Bob Sajot in trying to produce one with a 5 round magazine and other slight changes - like opening up the reciever ... hopefully the gun with a bull barrel, five shot mag, etc. will come out only to 15 - 20 thou... have already signed up with them to get one and then modify it until properly tuned and then they will see if they can produce it as is. Looking at opening up the receiver, changing main screws to allen type to facilitate torquing, creating some simple pillar bedding, free floating the barrel, and perhaps the most difficult - will see if we can make the trigger adjustable (wish - sigh, sigh...) will be needing the inputs of everyone on this one. Would love to shorten the movement of the bolt - but i don't think that is possible in terms of all the jigs and patterns one would have to change :dunno:. If I get it will have it with me at the amrscor range for people to try out and give their opinion... (will try - no promise):wow:
    Am excited... but may have to wait til after the gunshow. :crying:
     
  14. Wp.22

    Wp.22
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    I have a marlin model 25n bolt action pwede na ba yun
     
  15. pipo

    pipo
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    yes bro. We have actually 4 makers. 1. ARMSCOR, 2. JBC 3. FILARMS (now closed) and 4. MARIO MULI... We also have makers down south but they are rather rare pa.
     
  16. jaisan

    jaisan
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    Hi Pipo,

    Thanks for the info - galing pala ng air gun.:supergrin:

    Hi Wp.22,

    Yes that will do - my friend Sonny and his barkada use marlin bolt guns some tube feed, some mag fed.. and Sonny is hitting and scoring all the way up to 150 meters with a gong at 200... pwede yan! :thumbsup:
     
  17. Wp.22

    Wp.22
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    i guess i just need a good bipod and scope
     
  18. Putok-Glock

    Putok-Glock
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    How about single shot .22 rifles? Guess its more consistent in accuracy than a bolt but disadvantaged ba?
     
  19. jaisan

    jaisan
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    Hi Wp.22,

    For the bipod - I use the bad boyz made in China swivel bipod - just put a dab of superglue or expoy on the lock nut and it has turned out to be very very good. Mura pa compared to the original Harris.

    For Scopes recommend mildot reticles if using chinese scope go for the largest opening like the 50 mm - variable 4-15 is enough. If you can get a good scope get it mahal but they last..

    Putok-Glock
    Yes single shots do compete - may extended time sila but you have to develop a technique and have to be precise (no mistakes) to do 5 shots within one minute par. A magazine feed bolt is the preferred, but shoot what you have - just shoot and enjoy.

    Best to all...

    jaisan
     
  20. jaisan

    jaisan
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    The rifle m1400TS that was used was the personal property of Bob Sajot. It was sighted in by him and then the picture shows the grouping at 50 meters using Armscor subsonic. :supergrin:
    The other picture is the gun with me. It is essentially a bull barrel, single shot bolt gun with a sihoulette target type stock. The gun was bought originally at a ridiculous price of 12,ooo petots. :faint:
    This is what hopefully i can improve further. :dunno: