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Loaded and Tested my first 10mm

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Green Mountain Boy, May 3, 2014.

  1. I have had a 29 Gen 4 for a while and up until this point was running mostly underwood through it. As such I have a nice little stash of Starline and Underwood once fired brass.

    Last night I set up my dies (Lee 4 Die Set) on the RCBS Rock Chucker and went to work. As these dies are 40 s&w dies that can load 10mm I noticed that I had to be at the edge of the adjustment length to get them to work properly. As such I had to make a few more dummy rounds to get to where I was going.

    Rainer Led Safe 165 Grain Plated Flat Nose
    6.8 Grains Tite Group
    Starline/Underwood Brass
    CCI 300 Large Pistol Primer (not magnum)
    1.126 OAL

    I only had time to make up and test 20 but It was a nice first blush. I did not notice a difference in recoil between the underwood loads I have been shooting and this. These were enough to cycle the heavier recoil spring that I have been running for underwood and functioned perfectly. I used an old soup pot that we have been shooting as a target because I was burning daylight and didn't have time to setup real targets.

    My accuracy was MOSP (minute of soup pot) at ~20 yards. I will say that these rounds knocked that pot all over the range. It was like shooting at one of those bouncing ball targets.

    This afternoon when I get home from work I am going to do up a bunch more and run some drills with them.

    Regards, GMB
     
  2. SJ 40

    SJ 40

    13,306
    2,976
    Jan 17, 2011
    Vermont
    GMB

    Wait till you load up some Longshot or Blue Dot under those 165's,you will be surprised what the chronograph says. SJ 40
     


  3. Steel Head

    Steel Head Tactical Cat

    16,043
    30,907
    Jan 1, 2010
    A cat box in WA
    Seems like a really fast powder for 10mm not that I have anything against fast powders, for my uses they perform very well.
    I'm curious at to what speeds your getting compared to the underwood ammo.

    Congrats on the 10mm ammo!

    Didn't hear of any earthquakes or mysterious nuclear tests today:dunno:
     
  4. steve4102

    steve4102

    2,308
    674
    Jan 2, 2009
    I'm curious were you got your load data.

    Lyman 49 lists a Max charge of 6.3gr of Titegroup with an OAL of 1.250.

    As Rainier recommends lead data for their bullets I went to Lyman #4. It list a Max charge of Titegroup as 6.4gr with a 150gr Bullet with and OAL of 1.240.

    You 6.8gr is way over max according to Lyman and your 1.126 OAL is way to short.

    Looks to me as if you are it the market for another TiteGroup KB.

    BTW, did you work up to this over max load or did you start at 6.8gr?
     
  5. Steel Head

    Steel Head Tactical Cat

    16,043
    30,907
    Jan 1, 2010
    A cat box in WA
    I believe Hodgdons data goes into the 7+ grains range
     
  6. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

    3,463
    327
    Nov 12, 2011
    PRK
    I couldn't find Hodgdon data for 165gr plated (or any 165gr).

    Max for 155gr XTP is 7.2gr, so I doubt 6.8gr is going to blow anything up, but likely over SAAMI max pressure for a 165gr plated bullet. I definitely wouldn't play any higher and would be hand weighing each charge. One slip up, up there and you could start breaking things pretty quickly.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  7. I used hhogdon 155 grain data for titegroup. They seemed to run just fine.

    Ps I do hand weigh every charge. I didn't notice any signs of sever pressure.


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  8. Just realized my oal was a typo. That should have been 1.26 lol wow that would have been scary.


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  9. PCJim

    PCJim Senior Member

    2,950
    1
    Aug 4, 2008
    FL
    That makes a BIG difference.
     
  10. Lol yea I wouldn't have to worry about typos...... No hands left to type with after a 10 mm that short.


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  11. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

    3,463
    327
    Nov 12, 2011
    PRK
    Funny, I didn't even read it as 1.126, I read your original OAL as 1.260".

    In any case, you are likely at or over the line pressure wise for a plated 165gr bullet. As mentioned by Steel Head, Titegroup is too fast for heavy 10mm loads.

    I am surprised the recoil felt similar to your Underwood loads. I would guess you are pushing those 165gr Rainier bullets at least 100fps less than the 165gr UW stuff.
     
  12. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,933
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    CO
    Not trying to be a jerk. But pushing Titegroup to a Max charge in any caliber is just silly. 10mm is not different then 9mm or .357sig. All are very high pressure rounds. Don't understand why that would be your choice for 10mm max loads. It's a 180degree opposite of the proper choice. Obviously, it can be done but your just waiting for a major issue to occur. So be very careful and find a different powder. Something in the AA#7, Unique, Power Pistol etc range. 10mm is a great cartridge. Other then it fitting in a Glock I just don't like (large frame) it's my favorite cartridge.
     
  13. I could switch to longshot. Have some of that as well. I take no offense to anything. Don't worry about that at all guys.

    Hhogdon goes to 7.2 for a 155 gr bullet. 6.8 felt good in this however sounds like you gents are concerned about burn rate. Later today I will switch to a longshot load and see where that takes me.


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  14. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,933
    166
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    You make a couple assumptions that are very dangerous with a uber fast powder like TG.

    1) You use the 155 gr data and extrapolated it out to 165 gr. While that is a good thing, you used it to determine MAX data rather then the much safer process of using it to determine MIN data and then working it up to the middle range for that powder. I would never use that process to determine MAX data with out a chrono, some history testing with that gun and a variety different loads.
    2) Your using the concept of FEEL as some validation. A fast powder like TG is going to FEEL softer. If the TG load feels like the Underwood load you very well are in trouble. Underwood loads are not light loads and I am confident they don't use TG to make their loads in 10mm. If they do they are crazy and I doubt they are crazy. Basically a MAX load of TG would feel softer then a MAX load of Longshot (the more likely max load choice). So if your TG load feels like the Underwood load your probably pushing the TG way past what you should be.

    Edit:You would have been totally safe using the Heavier bullet data for the lighter bullet. But you went the other way, Lighter bullet data for the heavier bullet.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  15. steve4102

    steve4102

    2,308
    674
    Jan 2, 2009
    All the data extrapolation aside, ACTUAL 165gr data from Lyman puts MAX for 165gr bullet at 6.3gr.

    6.8 is over Max, going over MAX with Titegroup is a Recipe for Disaster.

    You wish to push that envelope, start you load development well over Max instead of working up, go for it? Just make sure when you are at the range you warn all those around you so they can back away when you have a KB.

    Carry On, enjoy!
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  16. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    11,682
    1
    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    I agree, It's an accident waiting to happen. I would use 180 grain data and at the start charge only. TG is for low velocity target loads. I run Bullseye, which is similar, in 40SW with a cast 165 (which is similar to a plated bullet). I rarely use more than 4.0 as the groups go to crap and the bullets start to tumble.

    I'd bet those rounds were near key-holing if they were shot on paper. Plated bullets ar basically like those little foil covered Easter eggs. They have a thin plating that adds nothing in terms of structure over a soft, pure lead, core.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  17. Do you have a link to the Lyman data? That would be helpful.

    Thanks, GMB


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