lets talk about the Confederate flag.

Discussion in 'The Furball Forum' started by speedsix, May 6, 2010.

  1. marksiwel

    marksiwel My Mommy's Calling

    Its like black people using the N word.
    If they use it, its not bad anymore.
    Southerns were trying to "Own" the Symbol, so that it wasnt bad anymore.
    Its a form of guilt, really.
    Deny the slavery thing, or tone it down, throw out some stuff about State Rights and "Second America Revolution" and Lincoln being the devil, and be REALLY Hostile about it.
    Nevermind that the leaders of the CSA and pro-secessionists talked about preserving slavery, nevermind that it was written in their constitution multiple times

    Guh, I dont even want to talk about the Civil War anymore.

    The problem with the symbol isnt that normal healthy minded people use it, the problem is that its used for all the wrong things



    Whats funny is the Klan didnt really use this flag untill the 1950s, before that they used Uncle Sam, and the American flag among other American symbols.

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  2. If you're going to make gross overstatements, at least put a <hyperbole> tag around it.

  3. Under which flag was there slavery for 90 years?

    Under which flag was there slavery for 4 years?
  4. marksiwel

    marksiwel My Mommy's Calling

    War is Hell -William Tecumseh Sherman

    I would say the North won because of a Larger Army, Better Industrial Resources, More money, and with the ability to raise and outfit an Army faster than the CSA, Not to mention the US Navy was far superior to the CSA Navy which was almost a non entity.

    Shermans march was just a faster way to end the war.

    It could have gone on 3 more years, but more people would have died than the number of People Killed and Raped by Shermans men.

    As for the raping, we dont know that the CSA soldiers didnt rape
    Rape has been very under reported through the years

    I mean US WW2 Soldiers raped burned down Germans, Italian , and Japaneses Civilians, but we still honor them
  5. True, you cannot find any nation's flag that hasn't had some horrible attorcieties committed under it.

    But the CSA battle flag is different, in that it's purpose was to preserve the legal right to do those things.
  6. Andy, in 1857 just before the war, Under which flag and which Supreme Court did the Dred Scott v. Sandford, decision come?

    What did that decision say?
  7. JASV.17

    JASV.17 Prime Example

    I think marksiwel was closest to the answer with this...

    "The problem with the symbol isnt that normal healthy minded people use it, the problem is that its used for all the wrong things"

    Bad people have given the flag a bad name, and has tarnished it for use by those who would use it in display of their Southern pride/heritage.
  8. Natty, honestly, are you goign to try to say with a straight face that the issue that drove the states apart, the issue that pushed the south to believe that their economic survivial depended upon seccession, was anything other than slavery?

    Sorry, it just don't wash. And yes, I do realize that at times, slavery was legal under many flags, but by 1860 change was in the air. THe south didn't want to change, so the made a new flag, and fought to preserve the status quo. They lost and the laws changed. Yes the war was brutal, with great brutality, but in the end the laws changed. Without a doubt these changes led to many legal, unintended consequeses that we still live with today. Some good, some bad. Such is almost always the nature of exercising government power.
  9. This is probably the most ignorant post I have ever seen on GlockTalk. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  10. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

    I think that's the main problem. The classic "Rebel" flag was the battle flag of the Confederate Army and as such it used to be a largely non-political symbol denoting a rebellious fighting spirit and general disdain for authority.

    It wasn't really a symbol of racism until the KKK started usurping it in the mid-late 1950s and the Neo-Nazis started waving it around in the 1970s and 80s.

    If we Southerners want someone to blame for the Rebel Flag becoming associated with modern-day racism, we should be blaming the Klan and Neo Nazis.
  11. Andy, some states still slavery after the war was over, were they Confederate or Union.
  12. marksiwel

    marksiwel My Mommy's Calling

    You sir, make me ashamed that you are also a Fellow Texan
  13. I love ya bro, but thats not what he's saying... He's saying that Hitler took a country that was crushed and made it great again.. People in Germany had high regard for their leader, the Fuhrer. Sure, it wasn't a democracy or a republic, it was facism however, argue it or not, many people didn't mind... majority anyway. How many don't agree with half of what the Federal Government does but stay here anyway? Much akin to Nazi Germany..

    I remember when Soldiers, US Soldiers were being spit on, **** on and pissed on by their countrymen... They'd go to war, paying debts they felt they had, kicking ass, taking names, burying friends, trying to put friends back together in a place called Vietnam.. Only to come home to another war. They were seen as outcasts, scumbags, derilicts, baby killers, much like the Nazi's in Germany..

    Now, every soldier here gets a military discount, they're regarded highly no matter what branch, what service, what discipline.... What happened there?...

    I think the change in the flag is typical revolution of beliefs. Any country, any movement, any beliefs can be changed radically overtime...

    In 1987 if you didn't spend 2 cans of hairspray on your hair, dress up like a chick and play a fluorescent colored guitar, you couldn't play out in bars.
    Now, if you do, you're a ******. Go figure right?

    Time changes all things. ALL things. The sooner you realize that, the better your life will be.
  14. If I make a gross overstatement I would to that. Have you never heard of the March to the Sea? Do you not know who William Tecumseh Sherman was? If the North was all noble and altruistic and the war was all about freeing the slaves then why did he burn slaves to death? The north was not doing so well against the south and needed a different strategy. So they chose what we would call today "terrorism". Remember this wasn't a civil war. The south was not fighting for control of the nation. They were fighting to leave the nation. It was a War of Northern Aggression. And don't think I am some southerner and this is about southern pride. I am not. I just read history at a little greater depth than what was handed out in the public school system.
  15. marksiwel

    marksiwel My Mommy's Calling

    Yep. I have no problem with the Flag as it was, but basically its been warped in such a way that its no longer viable for me to use/wear it to express the point I was hoping for.

    I just use the Texas Flag, or the American flag, or the Dont Tread on Me, or Come and Take it.
    Sadly the CSA Flag is retired as a symbol for me.

    There are better movements for "States Rights" then the CSA Battle-flag that dredge up America's darkest period and its most evil institution.
  16. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist



  17. marksiwel

    marksiwel My Mommy's Calling

    Who said the NORTH was about Freeing Slaves, so far the points have been about the SOUTH Fighting to KEEP Slaves.
  18. Mushinto

    Mushinto Master Member

    I don't know which came first, the left hating that flag or the ****** bag racist morons using that flag as a symbol.

    Either way, the symbol is pretty much ruined which is a shame.

    The swastika was originally (among other things) a Japanese religious symbol. After the Nazis hijacked it, even the Japs stopped displaying it in the West (after losing the war).

    Like it or not, no matter which side is to blame, that flag currently symbolizes hate and slavery to most people.

  19. marksiwel

    marksiwel My Mommy's Calling

    Shouldnt the Germans be proud that someone stood up for them and cast aside the unfair shackles of the Treaty of Versailles, helping make Germany Great again?
    I mean if we can ignore Slavery in the CSA, then we can ignore the Holocaust right?
  20. Does anyone else find it odd that none of these guys making the slavery argument has said anything about the North owning slaves as well?
    Slavery was not just something that occurred in the south.

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