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Let's talk about CAR

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by VICARA, Jan 27, 2006.



    Jul 13, 2005
    SJ/The Sin City
    Its been awhile since I made a post. Its been like a bad hair day, everyday, at work since I came back from vacation I'm afraid i'm fast becoming a grampy old man. Like today, (and its a Friday man, of all days!) one of our network switch went kaput, everybody's screaming they cannot print or they cannot access their emails or run their programs. My BP must have been went sky high. My users? They're a real pain in the back; they can't wait, Jeez!. :soap:

    Anyway, now I'm cool... So lets talk something else.

    Besides computers, guns and cameras, I also have another craze: CARS!
    Those 4 items not necessarily in that order. No, not that kind of passion like building/driving muscle cars. I know Benj is into that.

    Today, I got an email and a voice mail from my Credit Union offering something like a car buying services along with a dangling carrot of a low interest rate. As a matter of fact, they did a good job on my last car.

    What do you guys think of these cars (actually SUVs). There are tons of info on the web but I like a firsthand comment from car aficionados from the BOGs:
    2006 Lexus RX 400h 4dr Hybrid SUV AWD
    2006 BMW X5-Series X5 4dr AWD
    2006 Mercedes Bens M Class 4Dr 4WD

    I'm not looking into getting one of these just yet, but just curious about your thoughts. If I can sell all my possesions, including my guns and computers and maybe my clothes and kitchen sink, then I might have a second thought.

    BTW, what d'you guys drive going to/from the range?

    Calling Benj and other BOG members who are into cars...

    Thank you mga sirs.

    PS. joke only yung selling my guns. magtitira naman ako ng isa. yung clothes and sink ang hindeee
  2. bulm540


    Jun 18, 2004
    I have a friend who has the MB SUV. OK SUV, No major problems yet. Too expensive for my taste IMO.

  3. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

    Jan 22, 2004
    almost home
    You broke my heart, Vicara ;)

    I was hoping for a discussion of Paul Castle's gunfighting system (CAR).
    I've no experience with any of those fine motor vehicles

  4. Benj


    Jul 26, 2005
    Hi Vicara, out of all the cars you mentioned, quality wise I'd choose the Lexus, they have constantly beaten Mercedes and BMW in customer satisfaction surverys, although I'm not sure about their hybrid models.

    The BMW X5 is nice, especially their 3.0 diesel model. Of course for a guy whose quite passionate about cars, the 4.8is is the most exciting of their line.

    I wouldn't comment about the newest M Class as I have no experience with that yet, the old M-Class I wouldn't recommened though. Heard lots of horror stories from local owners, that's why the resale value of that car is not so good currently.

    I just noticed you're from the States pala, so what I said about the previous MClass might not necessarily apply to you :)
  5. isuzu


    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    Right on, Benj. I'd put my money on the Lexus or a Nissan/Infiniti for that matter. Nissan/Infiniti has greatly improved their products since Ghosn took over the helm of Nissan. I read the Time magazine a couple of months ago, and there was an article about Mercedes Benz (and some horror stories) struggling to improve its quality and reputation.

    BMW system (i-drive) has been too computerized and somewhere along the line, something's gotta give.
  6. Mang Danny

    Mang Danny

    Jan 11, 2005
    I would choose the Lexus over the Germand brands. Yung RX400 ay CVT ang transmission, while the RX330 is 5 speed automatic. Check out for more info.

    Meron akong RX300 year 2002 kaya biased ang opinion ko. ;)
  7. Allegra


    Mar 16, 2003

    Not really a car enthusiast ( I prefer bicycles :)) , pero I loved the defender so lalo na toh :

    Kaso talo ng tangke :)

    If you search for your choices and include Top gear , I'm sure they have a test drive


    Jul 13, 2005
    SJ/The Sin City
    Yup, I've been hearing similar stories along those lines. You're all right about Lexus beating US and European cars. The thing that catched my interest was the "h" on the 400h. I came to know, its a hybrid system that runs on electric motor/generator and a gas engine. The mileage is an impressive 37 mpg city driving and 27 mpg on freeways. It beats the rest of the guys including Porsche Cayene, Cadillac SRX and Range Rover. I heared it goes from 0-60 mph in 6.9 sec. And in Cali, its classified SULEV (Super Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle) Whoa!

    And it comes with the whole shebang of fancy gadgets including a GPS/Navigation System, rear camera, bluetooth tech, premium audio/video system, etc, etc. Wala ka nang hahanapin pa!

    bulm540, you're right about them cars, darn toys are real expensive but I'm a dreamer to the max! libre rin lang mangarap kaya todo ko na. MSRP:
    BMer= $54,295.00
    MB= $49,275.00

    horge, sorry my man, i didn't mean to break your heart. but give me a few minutes and see if i can come up with something about the other C.A.R. (will post next)

    Benj, thanks for coming aboard the thread; your insights are much appreciated. While vacationing there last month, my ride was a diesel-powered Nissan Patrol and its a pretty smooth ride far from the diesel engine I used to know many years ago. Yung parang nanginginig ka kahit sa tanghaling tapat. To be honest, never heard of the 4.8is. Also IMO, the MBs? you're paying for the name. Have you seen on the road a 400h?

    Any US-based BOG with experience on Lexus hybrid? kahit na yung RX 330. Pls share us some good and 'not-so good' adventures with the machine.


    Jul 13, 2005
    SJ/The Sin City
    hi horge,
    this is what i found out re: CAR Fighting System which incidentaly, is not taught to civilians but what the heck! maybe we can learn something from here. Its pretty interesting, but be warned, its quite a long read. Or do we have something posted in the forum before? My apologies if this already out there.
    Anyway, here it is: (I did not post the pix anymore)

    This presentation flows from the earlier article, and a recent paper by Paul Castle & George Whitfield which utilizes results and findings of six years of research by Professor Stanley Coren and CO-investigators Diane Halpen, Clare Porac, and Alan Searleman. Professor Stanley Coren is an international authority on sidedness, and Professor of Psychology at the university of British Columbia.

    The Center Axis Relock or C.A.R. system, is a gun fighting technique, not a range application. It is built upon the natural abilities of the Human Body to function under severe stress, as in real world combat, and not just the stress of range training drills.
    The C.A.R. system is relatively new police combat tool. And it is gaining acceptance throughout the police community in the US and Canada. It is POST approved in 22 States and is utilized by a variety of military units. It is not taught in the civilian sector.
    The system was developed to increase the performance of Operators in the field. They need to be able to shoot with either hand, or from either side, and with short or long weapons. Common sense and sound tactics demand that.
    Results of scientific research support its use.

    What is C.A.R.
    - C.A.R. is a strong, comfortable, and flexible platform for action.
    - It allows fast targeting and rapid fire bursts of shots with standard pistols.
    - It can be used effectively in confined spaces and vehicles.
    - It is applicable to team assault situations.
    - It provides maximum weapon retention.
    - It serves as an effective base for contact fighting.
    The C.A.R. system utilizes two main positions or stances, as bases for action.
    The first position is called the High position.
    It is used for working within confined spaces, from cover, and while moving. It is a very strong and flexible base for using both short and long weapons such as a handgun, baton, O.C. Spray, shotgun, sub-machine gun, and other weapons.
    In the High position, the operator is in a semi-bladed stance, weak side forward, and with the weapon held or cradled next to the chest.
    The High position is achieved by blading towards the threat, while also drawing and bringing the gun up to the chest.
    When the gun is drawn, it should be directed to the threat for firing if needed. Also, as the gun is being brought up, the other hand should be moving to grasp and support it.
    This position, with elbows extended, makes up a natural cradle from which the gun can be fired if need be, with both hands or just the gun hand.
    It reduces the Operator's silhouette, employs a balanced and stable, yet flexible body stance, and works in harmony with gross muscle movements, gross motor skills, and our natural reactions to extreme stress, one of which, is to bring the arms and hands back to the body, not away from it.
    It sets up a circle of control and defense that makes it very difficult for an Aggressor to grab or take possession of the Operator's handgun, Baton, or O.C. Spray. That is true regardless of the Operator's shape, size, or gender.
    The circle of control and defense is maintained by rotating towards a threat. And in a contact situation, strikes with the elbows and the gun can be made, or the gun can be fired.
    The position is comfortable and relaxed, does not pinch or restrict the Operator's breathing, can be used with full combat gear, and it can be maintained easily for extended periods of time.
    Fine motor skills are not utilized or relied on, as they will be lost to most Operators in a close quarters life and death crisis situation. That is due to an increase in the heart rate, and the activation of the instinctive Fight or Flight response, both of which happen in such situations.
    Also, the stability and ease of movement gained by using a bladed stance, along with keeping the gun at the operator's natural focal point, allows for fast acquisition of multiple targets. And the weak hand is up and ready for use in opening doors, clearing the way, and other tasks.
    The thumbs can be placed anywhere, as long as their placement does not interfere with the workings of the gun.

    The Extended Position.
    The second C.A.R. position is called the Extended position. It is used for entry, combat, and assault. It also can be used effectively when seated inside a vehicle. It allows for high levels of accuracy, as well as rapid shooting while moving.
    In the Extended position, the gun is raised up naturally and held close to the Operators true focus point (normal reading distance).
    This is an enhancement over stances that employ full arm extension, as doing that takes the sights out of the Operator's natural focus point. And even more so, if the Operator has glasses.
    Also, the gun is canted inward to bring the sights in line with, and under the aiming eye (the eye closest to the target). Then if the sights are used, both they and the target will be in line and in focus for natural and accurate shooting. The other eye is used for peripheral vision and/or use with an optical device.

    Recoil Control.
    With C.A.R., recoil is reduced greatly. The reduction is achieved through the use of the two main stances, plus "locking" the muscles and bones of the arms. This is accomplished simply by canting the gun hand inward as stated above.
    That movement greatly enhances stability by changing the alignment and relationship of the muscles and bones in the gun hand arm. It is the same locking action that occurs naturally and automatically when we fully extended our arms. At full extension, the wrists and lower arms automatically rotate inward to lock.
    When the wrists are not rotated inward, as with isosceles or weaver like stances, the natural stability and control of the arms that results from the canting movement, is lost. Also, when the arms are held out straight, they will form long levers with the shoulder joints being their fulcrum points. As such, they can be pushed up easily by the upward action of recoil forces, and take the gun off target.
    With the use of either the High or Extended C.A.R. positions, the length of the "arm bars" are reduced by half. Also, stability is improved when the arms are held closer to the body. And when the gun hand wrist is canted, the bones and muscles in that arm will be naturally and effectively locked and stabilized.
    The result will be a great reduction in recoil effects, and a reduction in target reacquisition time.
    Also, as the gun is brought up to the Extended position, the gun hand elbow will automatically and mechanically swing out and up, which will further enhance control and stability.

    With C.A.R., the target and the sights will be seen clearly and in focus.
    Double vision problems, and sight and target focus problems that come with the use of face forward weaver or isosceles like stances, will not have to be dealt with and overcome. Also dominate eye problems will be eliminated.
    When we look at a target, such as a door knob and with both eyes open, both eyes will see it and focus on it.
    But each eye will see it from different angles due to their placement in the skull, and because of the construction and makeup of the eyes.
    Our brain will then take the visual inputs from both eyes, and do the math to translate them into a color 3D picture for us. And it will also estimate the distance to the target. Nice.
    Now, if you then place a gun between you and the target, double vision and focusing problems will pop up, and a dominant eye problem can occur. And those problems will/can cause accuracy problems.
    When you bring the gun up for aiming, both eyes will see the gun, but your brain will naturally use the inputs from only one eye, the dominant eye, to position the gun in line with that eye and the target.
    That's OK if you are right handed and right eyed, or if you are left handed and left eyed.
    However, if you are left eye dominant (and about 35% of people are), and right handed (about 90% of people are), your gun most likely will not end up being in line with your aimpoint.
    Or if you are left handed (and 10% of people are), and right eyed (about 65% of people are), your gun most likely will not end up being in line with the aimpoint.
    In short, there are substantial numbers of people who are NOT right eyed and right handed, or left eyed and left handed. And "traditional shooting stances and techniques" do little to help them.
    One traditional technique used to assist the right handed, left eye dominant shooter, or vice versa, is to tell them to turn their head.
    As a point of info, tests have shown that when right-handed people who are right eye dominant, are asked to point at the center of a target with both eyes open, they perceive the center to be slightly to the right, and not the true center. That can cause the shooter, to fire off of COM.

    (see part II)
  10. VICARA


    Jul 13, 2005
    SJ/The Sin City
    Seeing Double.
    When you bring the gun up between yourself and a target with both eyes open, both eyes will "see" the gun, and your brain will use the inputs from the dominant eye as mentioned above, to position the gun. You will then be left with two images of the gun to deal with. The left eye image and the right eye image.
    Look at a door knob or a spot on a wall. If you point your finger at it, you will see two images of your finger.
    The one on the left will be the image visualized from the inputs to your right eye, which looks out from the right side of your head and to the left to focus on the target. Vice versa for the image on the right.
    What you should see, is one image of your finger on the target, and another image of your finger a short distance off to one side.
    If you are right eyed and right handed, the left image is the one to use.
    Now, if you change your focus from the target to your finger, you will see two images of the target. That's the way our vision works.
    In the days before guns, these things might have been of some interest, but of little consequence. That is not the case now.
    Finally, our eyes can focus just on one thing at a time.
    For example, if you focus on the front sight, the rear sights and the target will be fuzzy, and if you focus on the target, the sights will be fuzzy, and if you focus on the rear sights, the front sight and the target will be fuzzy.
    If all of this is a bit confusing and also troubling, it should be.
    Take a moment and think of a "traditionally trained" officer who is in a CQB situation.
    He or she will most likely be in bad light, with a heart rate that is going off the chart, suffering the affects of the Fight or Flight response, and on top of all of that, he or she will have to deal with the vision problems mentioned above, and come up an instant and workable solution to resolve the situation, or he or she may end up dead.
    Not a comforting thought.

    The C.A.R. Remedy.
    The C.A.R. system excels over more traditional methods and shooting styles, in that it does not favor one hand over the other, or one eye over the other.
    In a tactical situation or in and enclosed space like a car, you may need to shoot either to the left or to the right.
    The C.A.R. system is equal to both sides, and uses our natural brain to body functions to enhance the shooters stance and aim.
    One's right or left handedness is not an issue. It should be noted that handedness is thought to be hardwired, so shooting with your dominant hand will be more natural.
    Traditionally, squaring to a threat and facing it head on has been cited as being the natural confrontational stance and a rationale for using the isosceles or weaver, or a similar stance. But as noted above, those stances and their attendant shooting techniques, will not work well for significant numbers of people. And they bring with them double vision and focusing problems that an over stressed Operator/Officer must deal with at the worst time possible.
    Those stances/techniques are both problematic and unnatural.
    And, based on the results of FOF training as accepted in various gun forums on the web, current thought is to move, or move and shoot, or you will be shot.
    The C.A.R. system is excellent for use in move and shoot scenarios, including running and shooting.
    That clearly is not the case with isosceles/weaver like stances.
    Now, there is the possibility of an Operator being hit in the side while wearing armor and being in a bladed stance. But if the armor is of the correct size, both sides will be double wrapped.
    And, it also is possible that an Operator could be shot in the leading shoulder. However, that is unlikely, and very unlikely if the Operator is moving.
    For example, at a range of 15 feet, if the front sight of a standard sized handgun is just 1/8th of an inch out of alignment with the rear sights, a target six inches in size (the average breadth of a head), will be missed.
    Also, at the same range, if the front sight is just 1/4 of an inch out of alignment with the rear sights, a bullet will miss a 12 inch wide "bladed" target.
    But, if one is squared to a threat, their silhouette will be more than 12 inches across, and the same bullet will not miss.
    As to eye dominance, traditional sports shooting allows one to wear patches over the "weak eye" or to close the "off eye" or to wear shooting glasses with one altered or fogged lens. The idea is to force the unobstructed eye to be the dominant eye.
    That is OK on the range, but CQ Combat is an open eyed affair.
    And even if one was to close one eye, the pupil in the other eye will begin to dilate. That is due to the action of the autonomic nervous system, and there is nothing one can do to stop it. The body is just attempting to get more visual inputs to process into images.
    The enlargement of the pupil can cause sighting problems. Also, depth perception can be a problem, and more so, if one needs to move and shoot, and/or work on unstable platforms such as grass, rubble, mud, or slippery surfaces.
    In CQB situations the levels of stress are extreme. We can list what happens to the heart rate, breathing, and muscle control abilities. Fine motor skills will be lost to use, chemicals in the brain will increase our pain thresholds, and adrenaline will increase our strength, etc., etc., etc. Our primitive survival instincts will come into play, and it will be Fight or Flight time.
    The last thing we need then, is for the non-dominant eye to be closed.
    With the C.A.R. system and its bladed stance, both eyes remain open. Possible eye dominance problems are eliminated. And with both eyes open, you will keep your peripheral vision, and your pupils will be normally dilated
    The eye nearest to the threat will be used by the body to visualize and target the threat. And because vision inputs to the other eye will be limited or blocked out by your nose, you will clearly see the front and rear sights as well as the target, just as if you were shooting with one eye closed or with glasses that block or obscure vision.
    And double vision problems, and out of focus sighting problems will be moot.
    Your bladed position and hand positioning will naturally aid in targeting the threat, and you will not have to take time to find the sights. They will be right in front of you.
    This natural alignment also assists Operators in conditions where they cannot see to correctly line up their shots. The rounds will go where they are looking.
  11. toxic


    Jan 15, 2005
    doin' time
    Is that TOP GEAR (BBC) if it is .. i saw the edition were Top Gear has/have made some comparisons on Several SUV's in the market to know which one is the all terrain family SUV.

    Mercedez,Ford, Lexus, Honda, Daewoo, Hyundai,Land Rover,BMW.Toyota etc.

    The european and Japanese SUV's got great reviews on performance, handling, fuel consumption,After market Parts & accesories service,
    Agility on on-road and off road .

    The Korean and italian SUV's came up second.

    Due to the extreme price tag of the european SUV's(rover,BMW, mercedes) and Lexus of Japan ..these cars were voted out .

    guess which SUV came up on top..HYUNDAI

    my Bad it was 5th Gear not Top Gear also on BBC
  12. Benj


    Jul 26, 2005
    The 4.8is is new for 2006, basically the high performance version of the X5, 355hp :) I haven't seen a 400h on the road here yet, but I've seen several Rx300s and RX330s.

    BTW if you think the Patrol had a good diesel engine, you should sit in the BMW 3.0 diesel, it's much more refined :)
  13. isuzu


    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    Three vehicles we might want to look is the 2006 Hyundai Sonata and the 2006 Kia Sedona and Sportage. These Korean manufacturers have really done their homework and improved their products. The Sonata sells at a much lower price than the Accord and Camry, but has lots of standard features than its competition.
  14. VICARA


    Jul 13, 2005
    SJ/The Sin City
    i don't even know theres a diesel BMer! One thing I noticed here though, most gas stations don't have diesel fuel so that might be a drawback, you know, specially if you're long driving. The 4.8is BMer is already on overkill for me, not only the price (over $70K) but also the 355 horse plus, I'm not so attracted to the exterior look specially the rear end; like a tail-less bunny!

    Mang Danny,
    howz your RX300? Baka gusto niyong i upgrade na yan sa 400h para may mag tip sa temperament ng machine. Lintek na Lexus na yan, hindi na naman ako pinapatulog! I'm not grumbling yet about my Acura MDX (its a 2004) but napapansin ko lately, nangangarap na naman ako ng gising...Or baka gusto mong kunin na lang 'to. Mileage is 21K na. Bigyan mo na lang ako ng 16K, tapos take over payment ng 18.5K balance. Kuha ko, out the door was 41K. (Then I'll thrown in a free dillon 550B) Sa Vegas and transaction, 2.5 hrs away ka lang 'di ba?... Naku Victor ka!

    Actually bago ako nagbakasyon, inaawitan na ako ng sis-in-law and our pastor (car mechanic siya) pero wala pang balak nun. Then I saw the 400h.
  15. isuzu


    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    The diesel BMW could reach speeds of about 200 kph!;)
  16. Mang Danny

    Mang Danny

    Jan 11, 2005

    My RX300 is a keeper! May dings & scratches na through the years of parking in malls, pero it still runs like a dream. Ang arangkada pag five adults ang nakasakay, ay parang bitin ang timing sa pag-down shift nang transmission kaya pinapatay ko ang overdrive. (Same is true with RX330) Ride comfort and cornering is superb. Visibility is good day and night.

    If the electronics of the RX400H is a "family" of the Prius, medyo I'll think twice kasi may documented incidents ang Toyota Prius na namamatay for no reason ang whole system. Toyota denies there is a problem big enough for a recall. RX400H is heavier by about 300 Lbs. because of the battery.

    May MDX ang bilas ko with all the goodies. The seven seater feature is what they liked.

    Hindi na muna ako bibili ng sasakyan, siguro pag-tumitirik na yung 1995 Accord ng asawa ko pwede nang palitan ng bago.


    It's true the Korean suv's have good features, value for the money etc, kaya lang they fare poorly in re-sale value.

    Dito sa San Diego pag-nagmaneho ka ng 200 kph at nahuli ka ng California Highway Patrol, kulang ang one week pay mo sa multa!
  17. revo


    Apr 27, 2003
    Go Lexus.

    My only problem with all of the cars you mentioned are the leather seats.

    I don't like leather seats so I myself won't buy any of those cars.

    In case you're curious, my SUV is a Toyota Sequoia.
  18. VICARA


    Jul 13, 2005
    SJ/The Sin City
    revo, Sequoia is a good ride. A friend from Hawaii, when he was in the bay area, we test drove one, but the daughter ended up opting for the Highlander. It was a nice ride but being a V8, it must be a gas gushler. howz your mileage with your SUV?

    Something interesting though; Our salesperson who happens to be a Fil-AM, pointed out a new MDX on the showroom. Remember now, this is a toyota dealership. He told us somebody traded it with a, guess what, Sequoia! I have no idea if he is just trying to make a sale or something but...i dont know.

    I was seriously checking things on the 400h but i just learned something I dont know from mang danny re:dead engine for no reasons. Will keep my eyes and ears open if theres more to it. I guess its expected for a new model/brand/technology. Its like a software, there are always bugs that need to be stamped out. What with all the endless service packs from microsoft!

    The leather seats are ok with me. on winter time like now, I just turn on the seat heaters.
  19. isuzu


    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    You're right, Mang Danny. People have not fully appreciated the Korean cars yet. It will take a while for Korean cars to find their niche.

    As for overspeeding in California, my friend got a $300.00+ fine for going out of the car pool lane (crossing the solid line). It was one of those days that the regular lanes were more faster than the carpool lanes. Ang bilis talaga manghuli ng CHP. Less than two minutes after he did it, may naka tutok na sa likod niya.:)
  20. PMMA97

    PMMA97 TagaBundok

    Nov 25, 2003
    I saw an ad stating that the 2006 X5s can now be leased. Is this a good deal?